Gore's Old Running Mate more Conservative

I agree with Baldimo that the meaning of "seperation of church and state" has been skewed over time. Originally (it is my impression) the concept was meant to protect religion. That is, just with all other rights religion is protected until it infringes upon the rights of others. And by "until" I don't mean the first time, which has obviously already happened (I don't want anyone to jump at me with every single instance where it has), but I mean every single time or instance in which it does.

I don't see how having the word God on a coin, or elsewhere in public, or in the pledge of allegiance infringes on anyones rights.

Now, I'm not immune to logic, and I may be persuaded to believe otherwise, but it does seem to me that some non-religious folk want to attack and destroy something that is very American, and should be inalienable. And that this is becoming a more and more common thing.

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au1929 wrote:

Muslims. Who said anything about Muslims.

It hasn't really been brought up yet. I thought I might broach the subject.

Where do you stand on their religion?

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I can tell you that I "stand on their religion" just as I "stand on" every other, and that my opinion of their religion is the same as my opinion of christianity, only slightly more favorable in that they believe in respecting the fact that others believe differently.

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S coates.
The problem is far greater than God in the pledge of allegiance or on a coin. It is the attempt of the religious fundamentalists to inject their religious beliefs into civil law. We must protect both our freedom of religion and the ability to worship as we please. and at the same time we must also assure that we remain a secular nation and not allow any religion to legislate their beliefs into the laws of the land.In other words we must also be protected from the abuses of religion.

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SCoates
All religions have the same fatal flaw. Islam and Christianity have the same checkered past. And it is a toss-up as to whose is worse.

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In some cases that denies stand denies us opinions in politics.

Most of my "religious views" are also my opinions on how things should be run. Why should those be denied in a democracy?

Many ethics and morals need to be established into law, and religion obviously greatly affects some of those issues.

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au1929 wrote:

SCoates
All religions have the same fatal flaw. Islam and Christianity have the same checkered past. And it is a toss-up as to whose is worse.

Your kidding right? I must say, you have got me laughing and if I don't stop then I might pee my pants.

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Baldimo
If the truth makes you pee in your pants, you had better get yourself a diaper.

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Piffka --Brava!!!

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SCoates wrote:

it does seem to me that some non-religious folk want to attack and destroy something that is very American,

I haven't noticed any atheists on a rampage. I 've yet to see a statue to atheism being erected in front of a courthouse. And if christians were a minority in a God-less country I certainly would feel it abhorent to make them recite "One nation, under NO God, with liberty and justice for all..."

My freedom FROM religion is being eroded and that's what's got me worried.

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panzade wrote:

SCoates wrote:
it does seem to me that some non-religious folk want to attack and destroy something that is very American,

I haven't noticed any atheists on a rampage. I 've yet to see a statue to atheism being erected in front of a courthouse. And if christians were a minority in a God-less country I certainly would feel it abhorent to make them recite "One nation, under NO God, with liberty and justice for all..."

My freedom FROM religion is being eroded and that's what's got me worried.

You show me in the Constitution where you have a Freedom from religion and I will eat my pocket Constitution with extra salt (I hate salt).

So you want a tyranny rule by the minority. I thought we lived in a democratic republic where the vote ruled?

I see atheists on the rampage; they are called the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, Anarchists, Socialists, Communists and most of those on the extreme left. They are the people who run around at Christmas time and demand that Santa not be allowed in schools or that a cross on a hill must be removed because it offends them. Well there is not right not to be offended and you are trying to supress those with religious (Christian) beliefs.

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Baldimo wrote:

You show me in the Constitution where you have a Freedom from religion and I will eat my pocket Constitution with extra salt (I hate salt).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That's pretty easy to understand. Pass the salt please.

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Baldimo wrote:

So you want a tyranny rule by the minority. .

When did I say that?

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Baldimo wrote:

or that a cross on a hill must be removed because it offends them. .

Don't know about a cross on the hill but placing a two-and-a-half-ton granite monument of the King James bible version of the Christian Ten Commandments sends a religious statement, don't you agree?

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Baldimo wrote:

I see atheists on the rampage; they are called the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, Anarchists, Socialists, Communists and most of those on the extreme left..

I don't know where to start on this so I won't

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panzade wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
You show me in the Constitution where you have a Freedom from religion and I will eat my pocket Constitution with extra salt (I hate salt).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That's pretty easy to understand. Pass the salt please.

It says nothing about you having freedom from religion. It just says the Congress shall make no law establishing religion. I haven't seen this take place and I haven't heard of them trying. Do you have an example of the govt making a law that only support the Christian religion? I'm guessing that is your biggest gripe is with Christianity.

panzade wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
So you want a tyranny rule by the minority. .

When did I say that?

You want the govt to protect only the rights of people who don't like religion; I would call that tyranny of the minority. There have been several polls taken, and about 60% of Americans consider themselves Christians. I would call them the majority and you the minority.

panzade wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
or that a cross on a hill must be removed because it offends them. .

Don't know about a cross on the hill but placing a two-and-a-half-ton granite monument of the King James bible version of the Christian Ten Commandments sends a religious statement, don't you agree?

A religious statement is very different from making a law stating that it can be there. A statement is not a law.

I didn't know the 10 Commandments were Christian, I thought they were representative of the Jewish religion which is where they came from. They are listed in the Old Testament not the New Testament which is the founding of the Christian religion. Plus don't the Muslims also believe in the 10 Commandments? After all Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all religions of Abraham aren't they?

You should read about the rampage that the ACLU has been on in the last decade. They have been all over the US forcing the removal of Christian symbols. They have forced the Boy Scouts to be removed from public lands as being a religious group which they aren't. In a city in CA they were trying to remove a cross of off the city seal. In San Diego they are trying to remove a landmark cross from a place called Mt. Soledad. I would call this a tyranny of the minority.

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Baldimo wrote:

They are the people who run around at Christmas time and demand that Santa not be allowed in schools

I think all Christians should demand that Santa be barred from schools; it surely cheapens a majestic religious event.
Can you imagine Mary and Joseph meeting the 3 wise men and one is dressed like Santa?

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panzade wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
They are the people who run around at Christmas time and demand that Santa not be allowed in schools

I think all Christians should demand that Santa be barred from schools; it surely cheapens a majestic religious event.
Can you imagine Mary and Joseph meeting the 3 wise men and one is dressed like Santa?

No serious comment on my post?

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Hey! It's late. As always I enjoy talkin at ya. Take care.

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panzade wrote:

SCoates wrote:
it does seem to me that some non-religious folk want to attack and destroy something that is very American,

I haven't noticed any atheists on a rampage. I 've yet to see a statue to atheism being erected in front of a courthouse. And if christians were a minority in a God-less country I certainly would feel it abhorent to make them recite "One nation, under NO God, with liberty and justice for all..."

My freedom FROM religion is being eroded and that's what's got me worried.

No, atheists are not "on a rampage," but religion has been attacked verbally. I don't mean to make it sound violent, but its principles, or at least application have definitely been brought into question.

Also I presume that both you and au1929 would prefer that religion be removed entirely. Correct me if I misunderstood, but that is how I find my statement accurate.

Are you personally offended by the ten commandments in public? I presume it is merely the principle which bothers you, but in what ways has the incorporation of christianity into America (from its very foundation) failed to accomodate your needs? (That question is not intended as a challenge, I presume you have good answers, and I just want to hear them.)

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Gore's Old Running Mate more Conservative

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