1
   

Gore's Old Running Mate more Conservative

 
 
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2005 10:39 pm
God bless Senator Joseph Lieberman, a liberal Democrat from Connecticut, who, for the most part, gets it right when it comes to what being a real American is all about. And not only does he get it, but also he has had the courage to publicly tell the truth about our country's founding.

On a special edition of NBC's "Meet The Press," on Easter Sunday (3/27/05), Sen. Lieberman spoke courageously about the true meaning of America. Here's some of what he said:

"Look, I want to say generally, very briefly, that the mix of God and government, of religion and politics, is quintessentially American, and it was there at the beginning. The fact is that in the first American document, the Declaration of Independence, the founders of our country said that they were forming the new government to secure the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that they saw as the endowment of our Creator. So this government, this country was not neutral about God right at the outset.

"One, accepting that there is a Creator, so our existence here is not accidental. And secondly, that as a result of the creation, we have an inherent unity. We are all equal. We have equal opportunity for those rights. We are a country based on a vision, a belief in creationism. And part of that is not only the humans, who were created on the sixth day, but the natural Earth…America itself is a faith-based initiative….

"I think that the public square is greatly strengthened and enriched when people are prepared to speak, not just about secular notions of justice, but about the moral sense that our faith gives us. And again, I want to say that to me that is not un-American, that is very American. We are--our Constitution says we don't establish a religion, but it also says everybody has freedom of religion, and everybody has the right to speak their mind. And if your mind is faith-based, God bless you. Speak your mind."

When asked how he felt as a Jewish American when some folks say we are a Christian nation, Sen. Lieberman said: "This is a country founded by Christians, a majority of whose citizens are Christians. But going back to the premise I spoke to before, those rights to life, liberty and a pursuit of happiness, which we have as the endowment of our Creator, have been given to everybody.

"So though this is a nation that--the majority of which is Christian, I will say to you as a Jewish American that I believe in the 5,765 years of Jewish history, there has never been a country, other than Israel during certain times of its history, which has given Jews more freedom….That's the glory of this country and, frankly, the grace and gift of the Christians who founded the country and who continue to be the majority within it.

"And incidentally, I think this is an important message for us to convey to the rest of the world, because when--those rights that were in the Declaration of Independent, we didn't say that only Americans got this endowment from our Creator. That's a universal declaration of human rights….

"So, you know, I say to the--you can't separate God from America. You go right back to the Declaration of Independence. We have to always remember that the Constitution, in my opinion, promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Washington reminded us in his farewell address that religion in a democracy is one of the sources of values we need, because in a democracy the state won't tell everybody what to do every moment."

Well said, for the most part. I would, however, if given the opportunity, very respectfully call to the Senator's attention the fact that we are not a democracy but instead a Constitutional representative Republic.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,670 • Replies: 60
No top replies

 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 03:24 am
Religious zealotry and government do not lead to a healthy society. One only has to look at the stagnation shown in Middle eastern countries where women are still treated like chattel.
The seperation of church and state is one of the most important factors in leading the growth of this great nation. The current push by faith based groups to blur that distinction fills me with dread just as i suppose it fills you with happiness.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 04:11 am
I respect Lieberman. But I also quite agree with Panzade.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:29 am
panzade wrote:
Religious zealotry and government do not lead to a healthy society. One only has to look at the stagnation shown in Middle eastern countries where women are still treated like chattel.
The seperation of church and state is one of the most important factors in leading the growth of this great nation. The current push by faith based groups to blur that distinction fills me with dread just as i suppose it fills you with happiness.
You do know the differance between Christianity and Muslim? Muslim is not Peaceful, but very violent towards women, that's the differance. Say otherwise, you'd be contradicting what you posted.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:44 am
Actually, Christianity is a religion and Muslim is a person who practices Islam.

Is there a link to the source of your opening post or did you write that yourself?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:14 am
ConstitutionalGirl,

When you state that Christianity is not violent towards women, it seems that you have forgotten an important point of history.

You see, Christianity didn't spread across Europe all at once. It took a long time to convert all the heathens. One of the major ways this was done was to kill 'medicine women' or holy women, of the prevalent nature Religions of the region.

Villagers were so resistent to the changes that the word became synonymous with bad in Latin: Village, Villian.

Historical estimates show that at least 4 and as many as 7 million were put to death during the spread of Christianity accross Europe. The dark ages were a dark time, for sure. Be not so quick to lay blame on others, for Christianity is not without blame itself.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
rodeman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:18 pm
touche............! Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:25 pm
Traditional religions have many differences, but at least one thing in common: The notion that women are second-class citizens. And that includes Sen. Lieberman's faith.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:43 pm
C-Girl I imagine you live in the Bible Belt and I imagine you've never lived in another culture... I just hope you can keep your mind open to the myriad ideas that make up our world.

Don't worry about being surrounded by heathens here, your brethren will no doubt rally 'round you soon.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 04:00 pm
panzade wrote:
C-Girl I imagine you live in the Bible Belt and I imagine you've never lived in another culture... I just hope you can keep your mind open to the myriad ideas that make up our world.

Don't worry about being surrounded by heathens here, your brethren will no doubt rally 'round you soon.
The World is a Wicked Place.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 04:56 pm
Leiberman is as far as I am concerned is a political animal. Which I believe says it all. Gore made a mistake when he took him on as a running mate.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 06:28 pm
panzade wrote:
Religious zealotry and government do not lead to a healthy society. One only has to look at the stagnation shown in Middle eastern countries where women are still treated like chattel.
The seperation of church and state is one of the most important factors in leading the growth of this great nation. The current push by faith based groups to blur that distinction fills me with dread just as i suppose it fills you with happiness.


There is a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion. I know you and your "Man is God" buddies don't want to be reminded that there is a higher power, but you are wrong and even the founding fathers knew the difference. Don't confuse the misuse of religion by the Church in the early days with people of faith today. Our country is hardly going to take a back slide in progress because of religion. In contrast, we are taking a back slide in morals because of secularism.

There can be a healthy mix between religion and politics and I think our country was doing a fine job of this until the last 30 or so years. When people such as yourself started thinking how much you hated religion you found a few judges that agreed with you, and this nation has been paying the price ever since.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 06:49 pm
Baldimo, I think you misunderstood panzade's post. He clearly said "religious zealotry" which is clearly not the same as a healthy mix between religion and politics.

And, for the record, there is morality outside of religion.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 06:56 pm
FreeDuck wrote
Quote:
And, for the record, there is morality outside of religion
.

Far more than within.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 06:59 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I know you and your "Man is God" buddies don't want to be reminded that there is a higher power, but you are wrong


You're insulting and patronizing but i'm gonna let it slide because ...I like your efforts to verbalize how you feel.

Anybody that tells me I'm wrong and doesn't make an effort to explain ...well my eyes start to glaze over.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 07:12 pm
au1929 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote
Quote:
And, for the record, there is morality outside of religion
.

Far more than within.


How do you figure? I think this country has been in a moral decline in the last several decades. Please explain how you think there is more morals outside of religion.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 07:22 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I think our country was doing a fine job of this until the last 30 or so years. When people such as yourself started thinking how much you hated religion you found a few judges that agreed with you, and this nation has been paying the price ever since.


Oh really? Thirty or so years ago, hmmm. And you want to go back, Baldimo? How old are you? I presume you'd be less than a fetus. Well listen Grasshopper -- here's a little history to cogitate on before you start waxing about the good old days. Forty-one years ago, this country was inches away from continuing its historical & God-given discriminatory policies against women.

Up until 1964 and the Civil Rights Movement, the women of the United States of America were second class citizens and could be discriminated against for housing and jobs. Equal pay was not even on the table.

In fact, it was through a calculated but in the end foolish (for them) move on the part of the southern senators, that women gained any strength at all. The senators were arguing over the wording of the Civil Rights Bill when one thought that he'd add in a clause about extending the rules against discrimination to women, thinking that nobody would vote for that. The southerners (those good Christians) who pushed that clause into the bill later voted desperately against it... but oh my, were they fooled.

See: Governmental Archives -- Treasures of Congress

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/treasures_of_congress/Images/page_24/73a.html

Quote:
As the House of Representatives considered amendments to the Civil Rights bill, opponents used a variety of tactics to defeat the measure. Representative Howard Smith of Virginia sponsored a "killer" amendment to the bill adding the word "sex" to the list of categories such as race and religion which employers would be banned from considering when hiring. But Smith's tactic misfired. The bill cleared the House and Senate with "sex" still included, and later, when a conference committee suggested removing the word, Representative Martha Griffiths of Michigan and Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine insisted that it remain. The inclusion of "sex" in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act became the basis for government efforts to promote gender equality in the workforce.



From: Gary Miller, Washington University, St. Louis
http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~polisci/miller/american/lecture/civilrights.html
Quote:
all reasonable moderates would have to vote against the Civil Rights Bill.

As a result: the intended "killer amendment" was incorporated into the legislation, but it did not kill Civil Rights Bill. The Bill became law with a prohibition against discrimination on the basis of sex.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 07:25 pm
Baldimo
Religion is a self serving and divisive entity that feigns morality. Religion preaches love thy neighbor with a codicil, only if he is of your faith.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 07:30 pm
au1929, may I ask your opinion of muslims as a whole?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 07:37 pm
Muslims. Who said anything about Muslims.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Gore's Old Running Mate more Conservative
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.19 seconds on 04/26/2024 at 03:37:29