Why we are not perfect

Well Jason if there is one thing I've figured out it's that when someone is completely and utterly convinced that something just IS a certain way it doesn't matter how much information anyone gives it will never be enough.

The true intent of what is being said cannot be seen because person being talked to only see's their side of it.

Which is why there's certain topics I don't broach here. :wink:

I just let people be and believe what they want.

I figure if they're really that interested in what I have to say about certain things they can ask me. I'll give them an honest answer and if they believe it great!

And if not I'll just have to karate chop them! LOL Just kidding... If they don't it's all good. No harm no foul.

Let me make something clear to you, Hephzibah. I don't know if God exists. Do I think that the Bible that teaches millions upon millions of people in the world is full of crap when it comes to taking it seriously? YES, and ludicrous too. Why don't I believe in God? I will give you a couple of reasons why. When I first read a couple of Babylonians, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and Hebrew ancient stories, I came across plenty of indications that reveal that the authors of the Bible have taken ideas, concept, and phrases from each and every one of them. And since the Babylonians, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and Hebrew ancient stories date thousands of years before the Bible, there is quite spacious room for skepticism about such Biblical accounts. And we (in my advanced literature class) have even compared those stories with verses of the Bible. (And let me tell you that I've never laughed so hard in my life.) And the other reason in which I don't believe in the God is simply because of the baloney and logical contradictions that the Bible illustrates from beginning to end.

And how can we rely on such material if people see what they want to see?

You see? You don't have to fear any god. They should fear you.

When I read your first line I was like... Rut ro... maybe I should have ducked again... LOL Then I realized you were just putting your foot down about what you believe and why. Thanks for not putting your foot down on my head!

Jason, I can understand your perception on this but having not studied some of the things you have I have no real concept of what you mean to be honest.

It's not something I'm not willing to look into though. LOL I don't know how far I would get but it might be worth a try at least.

Though I wouldn't even know where to begin.

My question for you though is indications are different than actual proof of something being true aren't they?

Did you ever look farther than the indications?

I'm willing to look at it with you if you want.

I would be interested to see what you are talking about. I think there is plenty of room for skepticism on just about any given subject.

There are things that can't be disputed in life, but it seems to me that most of it is up to the perceiver on how they choose to perceive it. *shrugs*

How can we rely on any information Jason? Honestly, think about this.

Not speaking scientifically here because there are certain scientific facts that are proven to be true.

I'm talking about those other things that there's no scientific proof for or against it.

Just because we personally choose to perceive things a certain way does that mean it is right? Especially when you are talking about something that is so subjective...

How funny. Jason, you will take ancient Babylonian, Roman, Greek, Egyptian legends (which have FAR LESS literary attestation that the Bible) as fact, but dismiss the Bible as unreliable.

How many copies of these Babylonian, Roman, Greek, Egyptian legends exist in printed form and how well do they agree with one another? Most of them you can count the complete copies on one hand.

Your 'advanced literature' class sounds like a real joke.

Please tell us you were a student and that you're not in charge of teaching kids. Please?

The only way in which I would've treated you differently is if you (like the others demented extremist who regularly come to this forum to discharge their venom onto others) were able to pull on me an intense bravado of religious madness

That's not an excuse. Shame on you!!

I may have underestimated you, Hephzibah. It won't happen again (promise).

But they are proofs, nonetheless…versus no proof.

I don't know what you mean here. But if I told you that I grew up being a Christian, would that be indication enough?

Whenever there is a subject to be discussed, don't go off talking nonsense, or I will be forced to treat you like the rest. Try to be rational about it and consider the obvious.

Absolutely. We can rely on any information when such information is compared with various sources. We can determine their authenticity when the document has been compared with other materials (other sources). And we can finally come to the conclusion that such document was written by specific individual [s].

In other words…the existence of God. Such thing will never be proven, but it can actually be ridiculed.

But we need to consider the specifics when dealing with such "subjective" materials, just like we would approach any other "subjective" problem (not relating to the existence of God that is).

Ok, let's begin with The Epic of Gilgamesh. Go to the following address, download the PDF file (or you can just read it from the browser). And after you have read it, let me know what you think (if you have any question, let me know):

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

But there are teachers out there who are teaching literature to kids, real. And guess what? Plenty of them are atheists….

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

See? There is a God.

But there are teachers out there who are teaching literature to kids, real. And guess what? Plenty of them are atheists….

It's not your atheism that would make you an unfit teacher. It's your cluelessness.

You want to trumpet ancient legends and denigrate the Bible and brag about your literary background in doing so, but you cannot answer a simple comparative question on the subject.

(Did the question ever occur to you before I brought it up? Was it ever even discussed in your class?)

You want to tell us that experience is the best method of learning until it became painfully obvious what a ridiculous proposition you were defending.

And the topic which started this whole exchange was your insistence that your fanciful interpretation of Genesis had to be correct, in spite of the violence it did to the actual text, and which ends with you trying assert that a 2 year old eating cookies is analogous to Adam.

Hephzibah, as you read The Epic of Gilgamesh, can you get pen and paper and write down the references that are in the text, that are very familiar to you prior to reading the story?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

real life wrote:

See? There is a God.

So, according to you, if I choose to teach literature to kids in the near future, would that mean that there is no God after all? Can you measure the level of uncontrollable crap that you actually are composed of?

(You assert that God exists from the above response, and on the other hand, I just simply say "I don't know if He exists." That is one great difference between you and me, my delusional friend.) . . .

Ok, I really only have a question for you. Please explain to me how it is that indications are considered any more proof than experiential proof as someone like me would call it. Because if you ask me indications aren't really proof of any sort. When I lived in FL it rained almost every day, usually about the same time. You'd be sitting on the porch and see those dark clouds rolling in, indicating that the storm was coming. Some days... wham bam! There it was... you better hurry yourself inside. Other days the indications were exactly the same, however... it didn't rain.... just a thought...

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

real life wrote:

See? There is a God.

So, according to you, if I choose to teach literature to kids in the near future, would that mean that there is no God after all? Can you measure the level of uncontrollable crap that you actually are composed of?

(You assert that God exists from the above response, and on the other hand, I just simply say "I don't know if He exists." That is one great difference between you and me, my delusional friend.) . . .

Not able to differentiate sarcasm from rhetoric, I see.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Hephzibah, as you read The Epic of Gilgamesh, can you get pen and paper and write down the references that are in the text, that are very familiar to you prior to reading the story?

And your proof that the Gilgamesh story predates the Noachian deluge is?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

real life wrote:

See? There is a God.

So, according to you, if I choose to teach literature to kids in the near future, would that mean that there is no God after all? Can you measure the level of uncontrollable crap that you actually are composed of?

(You assert that God exists from the above response, and on the other hand, I just simply say "I don't know if He exists." That is one great difference between you and me, my delusional friend.) . . .

Not able to differentiate sarcasm from rhetoric, I see.

.........why don't you provide quotes that affirm that my analysis of the Bible is right?

......... As you may or may not notice, most (if not all) of my explanations are in the form of logical questions....

neologist wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I don't teach literature to kids, no.

real life wrote:

See? There is a God.

So, according to you, if I choose to teach literature to kids in the near future, would that mean that there is no God after all? Can you measure the level of uncontrollable crap that you actually are composed of?

(You assert that God exists from the above response, and on the other hand, I just simply say "I don't know if He exists." That is one great difference between you and me, my delusional friend.) . . .

Not able to differentiate sarcasm from rhetoric, I see.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

.........why don't you provide quotes that affirm that my analysis of the Bible is right?

Wouldn't that be your job?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

......... As you may or may not notice, most (if not all) of my explanations are in the form of logical questions....

Yeah, see previous paragraph



Yer killin' me. Oh.... my side hurts.

Hephzibah, as you read The Epic of Gilgamesh, can you get pen and paper and write down the references that are in the text, that are very familiar to you prior to reading the story?

neologist wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Hephzibah, as you read The Epic of Gilgamesh, can you get pen and paper and write down the references that are in the text, that are very familiar to you prior to reading the story?

And your proof that the Gilgamesh story predates the Noachian deluge is?

The actual rock tablets with the entire story of The Epic of Gilgamesh carved on them (not quite complete. some words have been missing due to aging); And many more ancient documents found throughout the years.