Why we are not perfect

He undoubtedly hoped that God would either be forced to forgive Adam and Eve's sin or destroy them outright. Either course would have been a defeat of God's purpose.

Instead God allowed the rebellion to continue. He gave Satan (what seems to us an interminable) time to prove his implied charges: that God did not have the right to set standards; that mankind would be better off charting their own course;and that humans would only serve God out of selfishness.

Was it God's will to have Eve eat the fruit? If Eve had not been given free will she would not have been able to make the choice. Free will means allowing us the freedom to choose. So is God giving us the right to choose but allowing us a very limited range of choices? Remember, perfection is a very narrow band that allows little flexibility. Under God's plan of perfection what would free will be used for without fear of our descendants being punished for eternity; selecting which praises of God we may want to use at a given time; staying ignorant?

Do you honestly believe in talking snakes, magical fruit, flaming swords guarding a mythical garden, and a god who would punish billions of people for one act of disobedience by their distant ancestors who had no knowledge of good or evil at the time? Do you believe that this god drowned millions of men, women and children for not meeting his standards instead of correcting the imperfections with which he endowed them?

Yes, mankind would be far better charting their own course than continuing to rely on ancient myths and serving the Biblical God (who, IMO, was unethical, capricious, vain, and cruel. If there is a God who created everything, he obviously is not perfect. You cannot blame sinful human beings for the flaws inherent in creation.

Do you fault God for death or thank him for life?

So, you believe man has done alright governing himself? I choose not to blame God for the errors of men. IMHO, of course.

If an omniscient God created the world and human beings with all of our flaws, then it is ultimately responsible for our errors.

Neologist, God did not create humans either morally or physically perfect. If he had, we would still be so, and we are not.

Why do you suppose that God refrained from killing Adam and Eve, but had no compunction about drowning thousands or perhaps millions of men, women, and children when he decided that they were not good enough? Not to mention tens or possibly hundreds of thousands slaughtered without mercy so that his chosen people could steal their land.

If an omniscient God created this earth with its parasites, germs, mosquitoes, earthquake faults, weather patterns, and men with flawed bodies and characters, then yes, it is his fault. We are only responsible for the things we can control. But our destinies are known before we are even born, and everything happens according to God's Will.

If you believe the Bible, that is.

Now, do you believe in talking snakes, magical, fruit, etc?

Neologist, if God is omniscient, then every decision we will ever make is known in advance by God. God also knows exactly what it would take for us to make a different decision (such as advice from a friend or mentor, a slight change in circumstances, reading a book or seeing a message on TV that made us think, something happening to change our intended path, etc.) Small things happen all the time that make a huge difference in our lives, such as leaving the house a minute later and avoiding being hit by a drunk driver. It might be luck or fate or part of God's Plan. Who knows?

In any case, if we are unable to thwart God's purpose or able to but punished for it, then how can our will be truly free?

Do you believe in talking snakes, magical fruit, etc? A simple yes or no answer would be greatly appreciated.

All other Ideals and interpretations are nothong but illusions and nightmares... :wink:

WHY ARE WE NOT PERFECT?

what is 'perfect'?

xingu wrote:

Was it God's will to have Eve eat the fruit? If Eve had not been given free will she would not have been able to make the choice. Free will means allowing us the freedom to choose. So is God giving us the right to choose but allowing us a very limited range of choices? Remember, perfection is a very narrow band that allows little flexibility. Under God's plan of perfection what would free will be used for without fear of our descendants being punished for eternity; selecting which praises of God we may want to use at a given time; staying ignorant?

Before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good or evil. A being who lacks significant knowledge may make a good pet, but does not have truly free will and is certainly not perfect.

Free will would be a lot freer without the innate biological drives and mental deficiencies which impel some people to behave badly.

Eve evaluated the evidence before her and correctly decided that the serpent told her the truth about the fruit and that God had lied to Adam. She risked death to obtain knowledge for the human race. Instead of being regarded as a heroine, her "sin" was used as an excuse for God to punish all human beings no matter how righteous their lives.