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Why We Fought

 
 
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 12:19 pm
Two years ago this week, the American invasion of Iraq was underway. Why had we gone to war? In the months leading up to Operation Iraqi Freedom, President Bush repeatedly gave his reasons.

Saddam Hussein, he said on Oct. 7, 2002, "has tried to dominate the Middle East, has invaded and brutally occupied a small neighbor, has struck other nations without warning, and holds an unrelenting hostility toward the United States."

The President added: "Some al-Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al-Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year…" He was talking about the now infamous Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who to this day commands suicide bombers and cuts throats for video releases.

The president had also made the case for taking action before the UN General Assembly on Sept. 12, 2002. "If we meet our responsibilities," he said, "the people of Iraq can shake off their captivity. They can one day join a democratic Afghanistan and a democratic Palestine, inspiring reforms throughout the Muslim world. These nations can show by their example that honest government, and respect for women, and the great Islamic tradition of learning can triumph in the Middle East and beyond."

Similarly, Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary of Defense and a the chief architect of the administration's policy, said on Oct. 16, 2002:

Iraq is part of the global war on terrorism because Iraq represents one of the first and best opportunities to begin building what President Bush has referred to as a better world beyond the war on terrorism.

If Saddam Hussein is a danger and a support to terrorists and an encouragement to terrorist regimes, conversely his demise will open opportunities for governments and institutions to emerge in the Muslim world that are respectful of fundamental human dignity and freedom and that abhor the killing of innocents as an instrument of national policy.

Isn't it odd that such clear and compelling justifications for the war and where it might lead have been largely forgotten in what passes for debate these days? Instead, the talking point we hear -- over and over -- is that the casus belli for the invasion was simply and exclusively Saddam's possession of stocks of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). That is usually followed by the assertion that since no such caches of WMD have been found, the war was unjustified and, it is customary to add in an outraged tone, based on a bald-faced "lie."

Which is itself a bald-faced lie - as the quotes above establish, as does the fact, noted by historian Victor Davis Hanson, that in the run-up to the invasion, the U.S. Senate "on its own cited 23 causes of action, well beyond the issue of weapons of mass destruction, and thus established bipartisan agreement on several grounds for removing Saddam."

But it is true that Saddam's possession of WMD stocks was something every major intelligence agency in the world believed. By contrast, many people - Democrats and Republicans alike -- disagreed with Bush when he said he intended to "defend the world from a grave danger."

They saw Saddam as Osama bin Laden had been seen in the 1990s: as little more than an irritant, one that could be kept "in a box." We now know that judgment was wrong. Saddam, by corrupting the UN Oil-for-Food program, was generating billions of dollars and had plans to spend that money fulfilling his imperial ambitions.

There also were those who did not approve when Bush vowed to "free" Iraqis. We now know, however, that Saddam's human rights violations were worse than most people realized. Major media organizations had been reluctant to report aggressively - for fear that, if they did, Saddam would target their employees or close their Baghdad bureaus.

But when Bush said he wanted to "disarm" Saddam -- that was hard to quarrel with. In the aftermath of 9/11, the argument might have been made that even without WMD, terrorists and those who support them can do enormous damage. But since, as noted, everyone agreed that Saddam, an established terror master, had the most efficient means to commit mass murders, the need for disarmament was obvious.

The justification for the invasion made at the U.N. also focused attention on WMD - but not quite the way the war's critics would have it. Saddam had violated agreements made in exchange for a ceasefire in the Gulf War of 1991. He had not fulfilled his U.N. mandated obligation to surrender his WMD and to destroy them in a verifiable manner. Such verification - and not playing hide-the-salami with Saddam - was the task assigned the U.N. weapons inspectors.

As I noted in a column almost exactly two years ago, the war on terrorism and the neo-fascist movements that utilize terrorism was always the "deep reason" for the conflict in Iraq. That was made clear many times by many people. Nevertheless, there are those attempting to distort the still-living past, to reduce the most important and complex foreign policy issue of this generation to an abbreviation: WMD. It's important they not succeed in spinning history.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,745 • Replies: 89
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 12:32 pm
Operation Iraqi Liberation (aka O.I.L.)

<spray paints on wall and departs>
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 12:45 pm
<snore>
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 12:47 pm
Yawn. Attempt to re-write history all you want, McG, ask anyone and everyone what the reason for war was and they will tell you just what you don't want to hear: WMD

Cycloptichorn
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:00 pm
Quote:
Yawn. Attempt to re-write history all you want, McG, ask anyone and everyone what the reason for war was and they will tell you just what you don't want to hear: WMD
Cycloptichorn




Old news, but it has it's own little place in this thread.

Quote:
In recent days, George W. Bush has accused those asking awkward questions about the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction of rewriting history. "We made it clear to the dictator of Iraq that he must disarm," Mr Bush said last week. "He chose not to do so, so we disarmed him. And I know there's a lot of revisionist history now going on, but one thing is certain. He is no longer a threat to the free world and the people of Iraq are free."

But if anyone is revising history, it is the US president. Iraq's WMD programme was the test case for Mr Bush's doctrine of pre-emption. The Iraqi threat was "grave and growing", Mr Bush declared. "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraqi regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised," he warned on the eve of war.

"We know where they are," said Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, as US and British forces advanced into Iraq. But 90 days after the main fighting ended, US forces have yet to find a single chemical artillery shell, litre of anthrax or uranium enrichment facility. Lieutenant-General James Conway, the senior US marine in the Iraq region, has explained the failure to find any weapons by concluding that "we were simply wrong".

Yet rather than asking why US intelligence was wrong, Mr Bush now claims that the war was about freeing the Iraqi people. No doubt Iraqis are better off without Mr Hussein. But even a staunch supporter of the Iraq war such as Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, has agreed that Mr Hussein's misrule "by itself [was] not a reason to put American kids' lives at risk".
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:05 pm
Since we have gone to war post 9-11, let's look at some of the tings that have happened
1. Afganistan - Taliban regime out...Democraticlly elected officials in.
2. Iraq - Saddam out, democraticlly elected officials in and going forward.
3. Libya - Giving up nukes
4. Lebenon- Kicking out Syria under way
5. Isreal/Palistine-Some progress
6. Egypt- Looking at real elections

The middle East is changing and our security is improved.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:09 pm
Agreed, woiyo. That's why we had the alert last week or so about Bin Laden urging strikes on smaller public places in the US such as schools and malls.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:16 pm
Bin Who???

And if we did not go to war, Bin who would play nice with us??
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:26 pm
5 years ago, there was a well defined list of people and places that supported/sponsored terrorists and terrorist organizations.

Osama Bin-Laden -On the run, hasn't had any impact since 9-11.
Yasir Arafat -Dead. Too bad we can't take responsibility for that.
Muammar Qaddafi -Neutered voluntarily. Hard to say what impact the events following 9-11 had, but they had some impact.
Saddam Hussein -In prison.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -Hiding in Iraq prior to the invasion and now recognized as the leader of the insurgency in Iraq. Soon, he will be dead or captured.
Lebanon -Syrian government retreating and perhaps a democratic government will spring up following the lead of Iraq, Afghanistan.
Syrai -Taking a hard look at it's role in the future of the ME.
Iran -Who knows what the future will bring, but I think and hope a peaceful outcome will result from the wise people whi inhabit Iran. It's a great country with the potential to also develop a democratic government.

Things, they are a changin' in the Middle East. History will show this time period to have been a catalyst to a better tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:29 pm
woiyo,

Quote:
1. Afganistan - Taliban regime out...Democraticlly elected officials in.
2. Iraq - Saddam out, democraticlly elected officials in and going forward.
3. Libya - Giving up nukes
4. Lebenon- Kicking out Syria under way
5. Isreal/Palistine-Some progress
6. Egypt- Looking at real elections


1. Afghanistan is the Largest Opium Producer in the world, bordering on a narco-state. Read that carefully. Most of the world's supply of heroin comes from there. Also, since we basically handed control of the country back to warlords, there has been a huge increase in abuse of women, who have taken to [URL=setting themselves on fire]http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/03/ea74ad8e-9b91-4cbd-b7f7-f13b521dce2b.html[/URL] in protest. Hardly an improvement of their condition, for sure, not to mention the huge numbers of deaths worldwide due to the increased poppy production. Still a long way to go before you can count them as a 'success.'

2. Iraq, I don't even have to quote you death figures. You know as well as I do that we have a long way to go there.

3. Libya had planned and stated their intentions to abandon their nuclear program before the Iraq war even happened. Analysts have said that the fact that the program was basically going nowhere had more to do with it than any impending American action against them.

4. Believe it when you see it. The pro-Syrian protests in Lebanon dwarfed the anti-Syrian ones. Not saying I wouldn't like/want change, just don't believe it yet.

5. There hasn't been any progress in Israel/Palestine other than a shift to Unilateral negotiations on the part of the Israelis. The withdraw from the Gaza Strip is cosmetic at best as it has no real strategic importance; while the part of the plan they don't discuss is the long-term strategy of breaking up any possible Palestinian state in the West bank. Once again, I don't see any real progress on this front.

6. Yeah, so are we here in the US.

Don't mean to be overly pessimistic; just that the law of unintended consequences will play out here just as it has many times in the past when people meddle in other regions of the world.

And we STILL haven't caught Bin Laden!!!!!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:32 pm
Someday Cycloptichorns glass will be half full...
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:47 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

4. Believe it when you see it. The pro-Syrian protests in Lebanon dwarfed the anti-Syrian ones. Not saying I wouldn't like/want change, just don't believe it yet.


At risk of being labeled a pessimist, I think it should be mentioned that there has been a resurgence of terrorist attacks in Lebanon now. So a place that was peaceful for the most part is now quite tense. There is a serious religious undercurrent to that whole conflict.

Quote:

5. There hasn't been any progress in Israel/Palestine other than a shift to Unilateral negotiations on the part of the Israelis. The withdraw from the Gaza Strip is cosmetic at best as it has no real strategic importance; while the part of the plan they don't discuss is the long-term strategy of breaking up any possible Palestinian state in the West bank. Once again, I don't see any real progress on this front.


It appears that Israel is no longer following the road map as they've approved 3500 new settlement houses for construction in palestinian territories even as the road map calls for complete cessation. Can anybody guess what the response might be from palestinians aside from an affirmation of their firm belief that the Israeli government doesn't keep its promises?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 01:56 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

4. Believe it when you see it. The pro-Syrian protests in Lebanon dwarfed the anti-Syrian ones. Not saying I wouldn't like/want change, just don't believe it yet.


At risk of being labeled a pessimist, I think it should be mentioned that there has been a resurgence of terrorist attacks in Lebanon now. So a place that was peaceful for the most part is now quite tense. There is a serious religious undercurrent to that whole conflict.


Anti-Syria Rally Draws Huge Crowd

Hundreds of thousands gather to again demand Damascus' pullout from Lebanon. One estimate puts the protest at twice the size of Hezbollah's.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 02:45 pm
That's very nice, McG. But we still have conflict (which looks like it is only growing) where before there wasn't, or at least not so much and not so violent.

Quote:

BEIRUT A powerful bomb tore through a shopping mall in the anti-Syrian Christian heartland north of Beirut on Wednesday, killing three workers and raising fears that agitators were fomenting trouble to prove that the Syrian Army should remain.
.
The explosion was the second in a Christian area in five days and further raised tension in a nation already buffeted by the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri on Feb. 14. The politically sensitive inquiry into that killing was delayed Wednesday when the chief investigating magistrate handling the case asked to step down.
.
The magistrate, Michel Abu Arraj, asked the Supreme Judicial Council to relieve him, Justice Ministry officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Abu Arraj had said he had too much work to do in criminal courts, the officials said.
.
Justice Minister Adnan Addoum said he would immediately nominate a new magistrate to the council, which is to meet Thursday. Addoum said Abu Arraj was bowing out as he was exhausted and because of the "atmosphere of skepticism surrounding the investigation."
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President Émile Lahoud, a supporter of Syria, said he had ordered an investigation of the new explosion Wednesday. He said the attack aimed to drive Lebanon into "chaos and fear" and renewed calls for talks between opposition and loyalist politicians "as the only means to break the current deadlock and bridge all differences."
.
Opposition leaders had rejected Lahoud's previous invitation for talks on Saturday, after a blast in a Christian suburb of eastern Beirut wounded 11 people.
.
Christian opposition leaders blamed Lebanon's Syrian-backed security agencies for the explosion Wednesday in the Alta Vista Shopping Center in Kaslik, a wealthy coastal area 20 kilometers, or 12 miles, north of Beirut.
.
"It has become clear to everyone that the security regime and its collaborators are responsible for terrorizing the people that united behind the demands of the opposition," said a statement issued at the end of a Christian opposition meeting.
.
Christian opposition figures who rushed to the scene said the bombing aimed to undermine Lebanon's stability and urged supporters to foil any attempts to sow sectarian rifts.
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"It is clear that those who carried out this attack are targeting the security and stability of the country," an opposition member of Parliament, Faris Bouez, told reporters. "It is a political message."
.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/23/news/beirut.html
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 02:51 pm
So? What exactly does that mean? Should they give up the idea of having a government that actually represents the interests of the Lebanese?

I am not understanding what you wish to point out here.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 02:58 pm
Lemme clear it up for ya:

'don't count your chickens until they've hatched.'

Cycloptichorn
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 03:00 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So? What exactly does that mean? Should they give up the idea of having a government that actually represents the interests of the Lebanese?

I am not understanding what you wish to point out here.


What is it you wish to point out by describing the protests? That all is hunky dorey in Lebanon thanks to the invasion of Iraq? It's not as simple as that. In fact, it appears that things are becoming more violent in Lebanon. If all had ended with the dissolution of the government some weeks ago, I'd let you have your rah rah session. But it isn't as simple as that, and those who declared Bush a genius because of the spreading sunshine in the middle east spoke prematurely. It's significantly more complicated. I don't know who decided to stir the pot in Lebanon, but it looks to only get worse IMO once you take into acount that the sides appear to be drawn on the religion line. So, for the time being, you might want to leave Lebanon and Israel off of the "mission accomplished" list. Not saying they will never be on there, but surely it's premature to take credit for something that isn't yet taking place.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 03:09 pm
Well, actually, I was demonstrating that Cycloptichorn was incorrect. Perhaps he had not heard about the follow up demonstrations that dwarfed the hezbollah one he commented on.

Are you postulating that because things might get worse before they get better the status quo should be held up?

Getting the ball rolling in large scale changes like a country throwing off the reigns of dictatorship and guiding itself towards democracy is no small feat. Iraq, Syrai, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel have all felt the effects of Iraq. Denying that fact doesn't change it.

I just do not understand why it's so hard to look at the bright side once in awhile. No one is forgetting the price that needs to be paid and no one is saying it's an easy path, but c'mon! I mean... C'MON!
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 03:17 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Are you postulating that because things might get worse before they get better the status quo should be held up?


Nope, it took me a paragraph to postulate what Cyclopticorn said in 7 words.

Quote:
I just do not understand why it's so hard to look at the bright side once in awhile. No one is forgetting the price that needs to be paid and no one is saying it's an easy path, but c'mon! I mean... C'MON!


C'MON! It's EASY to look on the bright side. It's much harder to go around fretting about the devil lurking in the details -- nobody wants to hear about it.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2005 04:55 pm
Quote:
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. Dick Cheney Speech to VFW National Convention August 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. George W. Bush Speech to UN General Assembly September 12, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing December 2, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing 1/9/2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. George W. Bush State of the Union Address January 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. Colin Powell Remarks to UN Security Council 2/5/2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have. George W. Bush Radio Address February 8, 2003

If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us . . . But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct. Colin Powell Interview with Radio France International February 28, 2003

So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not. Colin Powell Remarks to UN Security Council March 7, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. George W. Bush Address to the Nation March 17, 2003

Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes. Ari Fleisher Press Briefing March 21, 2003

There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them. Gen. Tommy Franks Press Conference March 22, 2003

I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.
Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman Washington Post, p. A27 March 23, 2003

One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites. Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark Press Briefing March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview March 30, 2003

Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty. Neocon scholar Robert Kagan Washington Post op-ed April 9, 2003

But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing April 10, 2003

We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them. George W. Bush NBCInterview 4/24/2003

There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country. Donald Rumsfeld Press Briefing April 25, 2003

We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so.
George W. Bush Remarks to Reporters May 3, 2003

I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now. Colin Powell Remarks to Reporters 5/12/03

We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country. Donald Rumsfeld Fox News Interview May 4, 2003

I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program. George W. Bush Remarks to Reporters May 6, 2003

I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden. Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne Press Briefing May 13, 2003

Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found. Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps Interview with Reporters May 21, 2003

Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction. Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff NBC Today Show interview May 26,2003

They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer.
Donald Rumsfeld Remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations May 27, 2003

For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. Paul Wolfowitz Vanity Fair interview May 28, 2003
[/i]

Bush lied, and THOUSANDS have died, and there is no neoconservative revisionist BS out there that can possibly change that glaring fact.

Perhaps McGentrix thinks the troops in Iraq can agree with this new, revisionist assessment of a completely failed policy of unilateral invasions of sovereign countries which pose no threat to the U.S.

I, on the other hand, seriously doubt that...
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