@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
You don't consider adoption in your argument.
Adoption happens after the baby is born.
Right. It's a post-pregnancy option. I assume that that's what you're referring to by "guardianship," though.
livinglava wrote:InfraBlue wrote:You're not Pro-Life. You're anti-consensual, non-procreant sex.
There's no such thing as sex without risk of pregnancy so you have to be prepared to accept pregnancy if it happens. That doesn't mean you have to be having sex with the intent of getting pregnant, just that you have to be receptive to the possibility of having a child by the person you're having sex with, and carrying it to term, if you get pregnant by accident, for example.
What about in instances of rape?
livinglava wrote:InfraBlue wrote:
This does not negate the fact that fetuses, developing human beings, and children, developed human beings, are not equivalent.
No, because a child can survive outside the womb. A fetus has to remain inside the womb to survive until it is born, and then it can survive outside the womb.
Exactly. That's why they're not equivalent.
livinglava wrote:That's why you have to keep carrying it inside the womb until it's born.
You're conclusion is a non sequitur.
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Right. It's a post-pregnancy option. I assume that that's what you're referring to by "guardianship," though.
Yes. You incubate the baby until it can be adopted because there's no other option. Maybe one day fetal transplants will allow surrogacy for women who don't want to carry to term. Maybe even men will be able to carry the fetus and deliver via C-section.
Quote:
What about in instances of rape?
In many posts I've explained that abortion was legal with a police-documented rape-report in Texas before Roe v. Wade. All Roe v. Wade did was too shield men from rape accusations.
Quote:
You're conclusion is a non sequitur.
What's non sequitur? The fetus dies when you abort it. It's the equivalent of tossing a baby of a bridge.
@livinglava,
No it’s not a choice but there can be a number of things that might affect the decision you make about an unplanned pregnancy.
@jasenhudson59,
jasenhudson59 wrote:
No it’s not a choice but there can be a number of things that might affect the decision you make about an unplanned pregnancy.
Why don't you think it is a choice? Can you explain exactly what it is about sexual intercourse that you believe is involuntary? Maybe I just don't understand the psychology of it correctly.
Also, if it's not a choice, then why is rape even a crime? If rapists don't have a choice, then how can you hold them accountable for choosing to sexually assault their victims?
@livinglava,
Do you consider drowning a choice? After all, no one needs to go swimming.
(I have no idea why any of us are responding to this silly thread.).
@livinglava,
Your conflation of things leads you to your non sequitur errors. One thing is sexual intercourse, another thing is pregnancy.
@maxdancona,
Actually, my mother used to indicate things such as, "Mrs. So and so
decided to get sick.' Or 'Mr. So and so
decided to die.
It was strange.
@Sturgis,
I have decided to never die. So far that is working for me.
@maxdancona,
See? It
is a choice! Lava was right
(yeah, not really, which ain't surprising)
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Do you consider drowning a choice? After all, no one needs to go swimming.
If you swim where there is a real possibility of you drowning, then yes you are choosing to drown.
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Your conflation of things leads you to your non sequitur errors. One thing is sexual intercourse, another thing is pregnancy.
Why do living organisms have sexual intercourse? To deliver the sperm to the egg so that it gets fertilized and grows into a fetus/baby. Why does sex feel good? Because organisms have evolved in a way that rewards reproduction with pleasure. Why do humans try to separate sexual pleasure from reproduction? Because they are perverse and indulgent. What are the consequences for thinking you can control sex to get the pleasure without reproducing: unwanted pregnancy, STDs, heartaches, sex addiction, etc. etc. All these things are natural consequences of sexual intercourse, yet foolish humans allow their desire for pleasure to cause their minds to rationalize indulging and acting entitled to averting the consequences, even if it means murdering a fetus.
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:Why do living organisms have sexual intercourse?
because it feels good and is fun
full stop
anything else is either a bonus or, well, not
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote: If rapists don't have a choice, then how can you hold them accountable for choosing to sexually assault their victims?
rape is about power and violence, not sex
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:In other words, abortion and birth control unnaturally separate sex from pregnancy and pregnancy from childbirth.
apparently you think science is not natural
sad
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:Everyone knows that sex causes pregnancy by the time they are capable of doing it.
given how young children are when they are capable of having sex, there's a decent chance some don't know what the outcome could be
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:There's no such thing as sex without risk of pregnancy
are you for real?
people have sex before they become fertile
people have sex when they are no longer fertile
people have sex because it's fun, not because they plan to become pregnant (there are some cults that think differently, but well, I think differently about them as well )
<will I be back after the flood control ends?>
When the so-called "right to life" crowd have convinced a woman not to have an abortion, and a child is born, where are they for the next eighteen years? How much concern do they show for the cost of care and of raising and educating the child? This says it all for me. They don't give a rat's ass about children, all they care about is controlling people's lives; all they care about is political power.
To put this in terms that mealy-mouthed christians ought to be able to understand, Matthew Chapter 23, verse 27:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
livinglava wrote:Why do living organisms have sexual intercourse?
because it feels good and is fun
full stop
anything else is either a bonus or, well, not
That is literally short-sighted. Sexual pleasure has evolved to stimulate reproduction. That's its natural function. Pleasure is not an end in itself.
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
livinglava wrote: If rapists don't have a choice, then how can you hold them accountable for choosing to sexually assault their victims?
rape is about power and violence, not sex
If a someone chooses to engage in sexual intercourse with someone else without consent, it's not rape unless their primary motive is power and violence? So does that mean every horny guy who commits date rape to get off is not a rapist because they don't care about power or violence more than the sex?
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
livinglava wrote:In other words, abortion and birth control unnaturally separate sex from pregnancy and pregnancy from childbirth.
apparently you think science is not natural
sad
The distinction between natural and artificial is valid.
