This is your brain on stress:

That's so fantastic that you have a shared history.

I'm having a hard time articulating why, but I think you should go back to swimming even/ especially if that specific lifeguard is there. I have a thread called something like "Ack!" about a really horrible experience sozlet and I had with a really horrible teacher at one of her classes (before preschool.) It was the kind of thing that could have metasized if I'd just left it at the horribleness, I think. But we put some conscious effort into handling it and it faded. I was worried for a while there that she would always hate school, and refuse to be left on her own, and that really completely faded. She ADORES school now, and has since the next class after that one.

Here we go (if you're interested):

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18068

Back to the swimming pool....back on the horse what threw you...

I'm reading along. Dlowan's mention of the first bath prompts my response.

K, now 14, seemed to be born with a bucket full of anxieties. She was terrified of many things including dogs, balloons, birthday parties, and others. Mostly things that were loud and where unexpected things happened.

We didn't realise it at the time but my husband observed her first bath in the hospital nursery and she was purple from shreaking. We learned, once we got her home, that she was terrified of her bath and started sponging her off daily with a washcloth to avoid placing her in water. Little by little, over many years, she tackled one fear after another. Baths were a pleasure for her by the time she was one and could sit up in her bath ring and play in the tub. She befriended my SIL's dog at the age of seven. Birthday parties became fun at 8 or 9.

She's also had a lifelong fear of abandonment, which I have no explanation for, because she was never abandoned, and she still wants to know where I am. She's uncomfortable going on field trips at school unless I'm along or unless it's a place she's been to many time before. She refused to go to Orlando with the HS orchestra this year because she's a freshman and doesn't know the rest of the kids or the teachers well enough to travel with them. She did go to Washington, DC last year with her middle school class and Boston with her church group but she's known all these people for years.

She started therapy last fall. At the first meeting the pdoc explained that she is in an almost constant state of 'fight or flight' with an elevated pulse and short breaths. He suggested ongoing talk therapy with one of their counselors who is extremely warm and nurturing as well as breathing lessons from the yoga instructor and some intervention from us with her school on some stressors she was facing there.

I always thought she came by these traits naturally. I was a pretty high-anxiety kid myself. My adult friends were shocked when I told them she reminded me of me as a child. I don't show many outward signs of anxiety anymore but I worry about her as much as she worries about me.

Boy soz, I don't know.

I have no doubt that we will be swimming again. Swimming is great and I miss it and I'm sure Mo does to. Plus, nothing busts the flabbing feeling I get like swimming. But I think I'd want to brush up on my CPR skills before I trust Mo or my life to this "lifeguard".

And honestly, I'm wondering if subjecting him to undue stress is worth it. He doesn't calm down very quickly.....

Like today, it's kind of cold out - - maybe in the 50s. Mo wants to play outside naked. My plea, my demand, my insistance that he put clothes on before heading into the yard are met with "No! I'm not cold."

I finally had to lock him inside.

Where he still wants to be naked.

Where I'm comfortable in jeans and a sweater.

<sigh>

That is really interesting, J_B and I'm curious if you've ever had her hormone levels checked. The "fight or flight" response is exactly what all the threads I've been reading are about.

And for some kids, it doesn't have to be a huge trauma, it seems, for them to have these elevated levels of cortisol and the attendant inability to handle stress.

It seems (and I keep saying this because I am no expert) that it is a matter of degrees and a matter of that particular child. Premature birth, separation by hospitalization of parent of child (Mo was in the hospital for a week when he was five weeks old and in the hospital for three days when he was just right at a year old. I'm wondering if this might have something to do with his "prediciment".), lots of things -- not just negligent or abusive parents (which Mo had too).

Apparently girls and boys are very different in the ways that they exhibit these problems too - for girls it is usually later in life and more in the form of depression, anxiety, etc. Read that second link dlown posted - it is mind opening!

earlier on there was a comment about embedded memories

My friend fostered a little boy at 13 months - he'd had 21 homes and been in hospital with injuries prior to this. By the time he was 5 they had adopted him, consulting him and discussing it with him,

He never questioned his previous history until he was watching a programme on child abuse as a young teenager, he turned to her and said 'I was one of those wasn't I mum? I remember being hit on the head'



yes the memories are there

Viven, your story jolted loose a memory...

When I was little my parents best friend's adopted a little boy who was about three years old. About a year later serious behavioral problems started.

The family was very wealthy and spent the next 10 years, sparing no expense, trying anything and everything to find out what the problem was and how to help him. They tried every established therapy and some that were, at the time, (this was in the 60s) very controversial - like the Fiengold Diet, which has now come into vogue as low-carb.

When the criminal behavior started the family finally was able to have the adoption records open so that they could research the first three years of this child's life. What they found was horrific: being locked in closets for days at a time, terrible physical abuse and on and on and on.

When his therapist began approaching these matters he said "I remember that".

The last I heard of him he was in prison for violently raping and beating a girl.

<sigh>

If only a "baby snatcher" could have saved him.
If only a good foster mother could have saved him.
If only we knew then what we knew now.

Yes, the memories are there.

so sad

when the girls were young I worked at a local medical centre - the doctor had repeatedly asked for case conferences on a child she was worried sick about (on the 'at risk' register) and whenever the social workers went to the house there was no reply.

Months went by and more requests and I was the one who took the call from ambulance control for the doctor to attend 'small child dead, severe facial bruising'. Not something you ever forget.



To more positive things - I agree that swimming would be a good thing - and facing the hateful attendant may remove the fear/overlay good memories? Fears not faced do grow sometimes.

So we hit the pool today.

Ms. Not-on-your-life-guard wasn't there. The swim schedule is all screwy - meaning either that spring break has things goofed up or that the high school swim meets are over (here the schools and parks share pools which makes a whole lot of sense, when you think about it).

Anyway, I was happy to not be putting our lives into her hands.

But it was really nice and so relaxing and we had such a good time. I think keeping swimming in our schedule is an absolute must.

I did get a call from Mo's mom last night. Easter is upon us and I guess it's time to play happy family again. She didn't sound too happy about having to deal with it but her grandparents are expecting..... something.......?

<sigh>

Sigh.

Is that on your remaining 5 hours schedule with therapist? Getting Official Oomph for pronouncements to bio-people about what is and isn't good for Mo?

Glad swimming went well. :-)

No. The oomph won't come from there.

One thing he told me: YOU CANNOT CHANGE THESE PEOPLE.

And actually, most of the things I've been reading encourage some interaction with the bio-family.

Really, no oomph may be best.

my friend who adopted, kept her son in touch with his father and 2 sisters (fostered elsewhere) for some time. The father (not guilty of the abuse? birth-mum certainly was) drifted out of his life by the time he was about ?8 and didn't keep up the contact. She kept him in touch with the sisters until his teens, when the contact became very infrequent by his choice. He no longer has any contact with them as an adult.

The fact that he had some limited contact was a good thing they think as he knows about the family and the lack of anything in common caused a drift apart rather than a huge chasm. It means he has no need to search them out, no questions left about where he came from.

His sisters, who were older when they were taken into care had huge problems.

I think you are handling things just right - occasional contact but don't expect too often or too much.

Great news on the swimming. All kids should have multiple skills, but I have a feeling that multiple skills are very important for Mo. He needs all the hero training you can find for him.

Happy Families! Such fun!

Does Mo make Eggs/Cards/Art Projects to present to his mother? Something-with-love might sooth her inner stress.

At least you know what you're in for. Perhaps you can find out more about the possible move to California? Remember, you need to know her plans for Mo's serenity.

Hold your dominion.

You cannot change them, but can you gain some control over their interactions with Mo? Not even not seeing him, but the stuff we talked about before -- make a date in advance, and expect them to keep it?

I'm glad the swimming went well, Boomer. I hope the Easter visit goes as smoothly.

Their interactions with Mo are coming further and further apart - like what Vivien said happened with her friend. I'm not sure how much boat rocking I'm willing to do right this minute.

Mo's mom sounded very put upon about having to pick Mo up for this family event. I keep wavering over whether her huff was good or bad. Sometimes her huffs are good for me but bad for Mo which means bad for me.

I'm supposed to call her back today about our plans for this Sunday - we have plans to go to a party at our neighbor's house - and I need to let her know what time Mo has to be home. I think I'll take this opportunity to broach the whole California subject.

Sure, that makes sense.

Boomerang--

Can you offer to be Mo's Ride and Designated Adult at his mother's family picnic?

Not only would you be there to protect Mo--and convince him that he'd be going back to his Real Home--but you might get some inkling of what is going on in the mind of the child-mother and what pressure she's under from her parents.

Granted, this makes two of you having a Not Fun Afternoon, but you wouldn't be happy home alone and worrying, either.

Ahem.....

Please excuse me while I have a full blown panic attack. I'm hoping calmer minds can prevail and offer me words to frame this:

I talked to Mo's mom - everything is a-okay. She was just in a bad mood when she called. California? She doesn't know anything about California. Blah blah blah.

Her grandparents, knowing that we have been putting in a garden bought a bunch of gardening things for an Easter present. This is really very sweet and well done. They know how I feel about candy..... they know what Mo has been working on..... blah blah blah.

I was feeling content and okay.

Then the phone rang and it was the paternal grandma. "Oh I just want to give you our new phone number" she says.

And

"Now that we have a phone we'd really like Mo to come spend the night" she says sweetly.

"We'll have to talk about that" I reply deadly.

They have seen Mo a total of three times in the last year and some months.

"Maybe I can come to your house tomorrow" Mo says to them, and the grocery cashier, and the lady walking her dog, and the mailman, and the man in the next car at the stoplight and the blah blah blah.

And I can't alienate them.

And I can't let him go there.

And I can't just sit here and cry anymore because my eyeballs will fall out of my head.

And I honestly just want to pack up the stupid car and disappear because nobody should have to deal with so much crap on one single day.

And I can't really do that.

Can I?

And so I'm trying to figure out how to say NO without causing a million problems and I really need some help.

Oh my.

First, a ginormous hug.

Is the therapist person at all on-call? Can you get his take?

Good for you for buying some time, not answering right away. I'm sure that would be easier.

This is Winnie's house, right?

I forget, have you talked to them about Winnie?

Maybe blame it on Winnie? Something like, "ya know, it's the darndest thing, Mo has this fear of Winnie! I know, it's silly, what can I say. It's a real problem though. So I know he would love to see you, but let's keep it to... [more manageable activity, zoo or something]."

Nobody SHOULD have to deal with so much crap in one day and I'm sorry you are.