Choice and Sex-Selection abortions.

Good then, we agree.

I am also worried about the effectiveness of bribing women to bring female babies to term... but I think a law banning ultrasounds (or blood tests) is worse.

It's effectiveness would be dependent on the amount of the tax benefit.

It would then be up to the society how much they value getting their birth rate closer to 50/50.

So what? I don't accept this point you are making... but I also don't think it is relevant.

The pro-choice argument is that a woman should have the sole choice of deciding whether to bring a baby to term or not. If a woman has "pressure applied", does she lose that right? And if she loses that right, who makes the decision for her?

There are many pro-choice arguments Max. Not just one.

Why are you asking me this. I've already said that she doesn't lose that right.

Ah, so you don't think that the stigma attached to bearing a female child in India is relevant to the subject. Interesting.

Yes Glennn, they are the same thing. If you believe that a woman has a right to choose and doesn't lose that right even if there is "pressure applied" to her by society... then the "pressure applied" is irrelevant, since she has the same right in spite of the pressure.

Consider a woman in India who is disappointed that she is pregnant with a girl. I think you are saying this woman the right to choose an abortion in spite of the "pressure applied". Am I wrong? (This is a simple yes or no question).

Either this woman has the right to choose to have an abortion, or she doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

That's not exactly fair either though, Max.

She has a choice to abort a female fetus or watch her daughter live in a world of rape, beatings and extreme hardship. Some women "prefer" not to subject their child to that kind of environment.

Shhhh....there is no reason to bring nuance or grey-areas into this discussion. They are not welcome.

Did I not say that she has a right?

You are having a hard time understanding what I am saying. I am saying that, though the Indian woman has a right to choose, it is a fact that societal/cultural pressure will play a big part in her decision to abort a female fetus. As Neptuneblue put it: "She has a choice to abort a female fetus or watch her daughter live in a world of rape, beatings and extreme hardship. Some women "prefer" not to subject their child to that kind of environment."

You're making the mistake of thinking that you're having a normal discussion.

I think this is a very simplistic, and negative, view of India. I know that there are Indian women (who have actually spent their lives in India) who paint a quite different picture. This woman leads a feminist publishing company, she is a very well-spoken and intelligent person, and she pushes back against the negative stereotypes about her country from West.

http://www.france24.com/en/20140922-interview-urvashi-butalia-india-feminist-activist-publisher-violence-against-women-rape

You are changing Indian women into a stereotype. Not all women in India feel unsafe. Not all women in India feel threatened. Not all women in India feel their society is horrible. I know this because I have met women from India.

My question was about the woman who chooses to abort a girl because she prefers to have a boy... not because of danger or threats, but because she feels that her life would be better if she had a son. There are Indian women who would prefer to have a boy. My question was specifically whether this woman has the right to abort her female baby.

I think your answer to this question is still "yes". Even though you keep changing the question. If you think this woman shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion, please let me know.

Crime Check: 2018 Has Only Gotten Worse For Children in India
SANJANA RAYUPDATED: 16.04.1

Children are supposed to be protected. They’re supposed to have a childhood spent stressing about playtime before homework and about making up with their best friends over tiffin fights. But in India, children are scared. And they should be.

The tragic, inhuman and unspeakable act of rape, torture and the murder of an eight-year-old in Kathua has jolted the entire nation.

How do you equip children to protect themselves? How do you protect a child? The situation in India is quite grim.

The National Crime Records Bureau’s (NCRB) most recent records, showcasing the rate of crime against children in India in 2016, presents an extremely worrying statistic.

Looking specifically at the incidents of rape against children, an 82 percent increase in the number of cases in one year was reported in 2016.

The records show that while in 2015, 10,854 cases of rape under Section 376 of the IPC and under Sections 4 and 6 of the Protection of Children against Sexual Offences (POCSO) Act were registered pan-India, 2016 saw 19,765 of such cases being registered.

The most number of minor rape cases were reported in Madhya Pradesh (2,467), Maharashtra (2,292), Uttar Pradesh (2,115), Odisha (1,258) and Tamil Nadu (1,169) in 2016.

Though the exact data for 2018 so far has not been released as yet, the year doesn’t seem to be faring any better.

In a mere four months into the year, we have already heard about some of the most brutal acts of rape and torture carried out against children across the country. And these are just the ones that have caught our attention.

While the NCRB is yet to release the statistics for the rate of child rape in India in the year 2017, its records from 2015 and 2016 are a clear indication that there has been a significant increase in the number of cases, a statistic which may only be rising in 2018.

These records show that despite the government’s control of the rising rate of crime against children in the country, since it came to power in 2014, the numbers have only increased.

Here are five of the most tragic rape cases involving minors in 2018.

1. Kathua Rape Case:

(Infographic: The Quint)
The eight-year-old girl, who was brutally gangraped by eight different men in a temple in Kathua, belonged to the Muslim Bakerwals community. She was reportedly held for days in the temple and raped, in what appears to have been an effort to drive out the remaining members of the community from the region.

According to the NCRB’s data, the state of Jammu and Kashmir did not report any case of rape against children in 2015, but the following year saw a rise to 21 different cases. With the Kathua rape and murder case having led to an outburst of protests across the country, the reality of the extreme and unsafe character of the state for its children has come to the forefront.

Also Read: Hear the Chilling Details of the Kathua Rape Chargesheet

2. Jind Rape Case:

(Infographic: The Quint)
Earlier in January, the body of a 15-year-old girl from Jind, Haryana, who had been missing for three days, was found in the village of Jhansa. Medical reports showed that she had been brutally gangraped, and her private parts had been mutilated.

While the main suspect was an 18-year-old boy from the village, who she had reportedly known, the suspect in question was found dead a few days later, from the Bhakra canal in Karnal.

Haryana, a state known to be unsafe for women and children, had reported a total of 224 minor rape cases in 2015, according to the NCRB data. In 2016, the number had risen shockingly to 532.

Also Read: In Jind Rape-Double Murder Case, Boy’s Kin Allege Police Torture

3. Panipat Rape Case

(Infographic: The Quint)
Another incident of terrifying rape of a minor in Haryana took place in the the city of Panipat, where an 11-year-old girl was raped and murdered by two of her neighbours, who reportedly committed necrophilia after they had murdered her.

While the two accused in the case, Pradeep Kumar (27) and Sagar (22) had been arrested by the police, after they had confessed to raping, murdering and performing sexual intercourse on the corpse, the occurrence of a second rape of a minor, days within the incident in Jind, suggests that the rate of such instances has incurred a sharp rise in the past two years.

Also Read: Panipat Gangrape: 2 Held After Rape, Murder, Necrophilia on Minor

4. Surat Rape Case:

The NCRB records for the rate of minor rape cases in the state of Gujarat showed a sharp rise, from 1,059 minor victims being subjected to rape in 2015 to a total of 1,120 in 2016.

The recent news regarding the discovery of a mutilated body of an 11-year-old girl, with as many as 86 injury marks being found on her body, doesn’t seem to state that the number of minor rape cases in the state has improved in any way.

The postmortem report suggests that the victim was abducted and raped for at least eight days, before she was strangled to death.

Also Read: Minor Raped & Murdered in Surat, Case Transferred to Crime Branch

5. Lalunggaon Rape Case:

Assam’s records witnessed yet another jump from 542 minor victims being raped in the state of Assam in 2015, to the number increasing to 586 a year later.

The year 2018 has also seen its fair share of gruesome rapes against minors in the state, with one particular incident, where a minor girl was gangraped and then set on fire, standing out from the rest.

The three men, out of whom two are juveniles, had raped the class five student in March, with the third still reportedly absconding.

I am pretty sure you are a White person. And, I know you have a political agenda. Do you know what selection bias is.

I am going to guess that you don't speak Hindi, have never been to India, and couldn't place Uttar Pradesh on a map without google's help. You have no real understanding of Indian culture or any broad understanding of different views in India. You have a White Feminist view of how Indian women should think, and enough googling skill to find an article to cut and paste that you think meets your standard. Of course you ignore any voice that doesn't match your political views.

Think of how simplistic your view is. Do you really think that you have any idea how women in India think? There are all sorts of women in India, many of them are wealthy and powerful.

This argument by Google is just a form of propaganda. It is funny that the article you chose to cut and paste is from a Bloomberg subsidiary. It isn't even from India.

Ok, so all the statistics on female infanticide I, personally, made up because "I" want to prove some political point to YOU and ONLY you.

And abortion doesn't occur, it's all a figment of my imagination, trying to psych you out.

The End.

Nothing to see here folks, keep on moving.

This thread (as you can see in the title) is about Sex-Selection abortions. I am asking a very specific question; should a woman have the right to choose an abortion if she doesn't like the gender of the baby she is carrying.

It is yes or no question. People seem to be having trouble answering it directly.

White people's simplistic, rather negative view of Indian culture is a tangent. There are wealthy American women who chose to have sex selection abortions. I am asking generally about a woman's right to choose an abortion for the purpose of sex-selection.

I think your premise is flawed.

It's not that a woman doesn't LIKE the gender she's carrying, but more so the treatment of such individual. Kill your kid now or watch her be killed later. How many women face that choice is what humanity has to contend with.

No. My premise is not flawed. You are changing the question you don't want to answer.

There are women who chose abortion because they don't like the gander they are carrying. There are even wealthy Americans who chose abortions because of gender selection.

The question is: should these women be allowed to do this. It is a simple yes or no question.

You KNOW my answer.

I will kill my daughter before any one else does. She will NOT know how cruel and heartless humanity is. Only me. It's a fact I will live with, as do countless of others.

He will just keep repeating his question saying no one will answer him when the 3 of us without enough sense to ignore this crap have all already answered this question.

Maporsche - yes
Glenn - yes
Neptuneblue - yes

Since Max ONLY wants to talk about his one question (he’ll repeat it over and over) I guess this thread is done.

Well Ma, you are the only one who has actually answered the question. The question is whether a women has the right to have an abortion for the purpose of sex-selection. You answered "yes" directly. I accept and appreciate your answer.

Glennn and Neptune are changing the question. That is why I keep asking it... they haven't clearly answered it yet. Glennn wants to make this question about how bad she thinks India is, and Neptune keeps making the argument that it is better for women to be dead. This question isn't about India, nor is it about how horrible things are in general.

I was hoping for a clear answer to the actual question.... do women have the right to abort a girl baby for the sole reason that they prefer to have a boy. There are women, including wealthy Americans with comfortable lives, who do exactly this.

MaPorsche - Yes, I would
Glennn - blah blah India
Neptune - "I will kill my own daughter before anyone else does"

If Glennn and Neptune utter the magic words "A woman has the right to abort a girl baby for the sole reason that she prefers to have a boy." Then that would end it. When they keep dodging the question, it makes me want to keep asking it.