farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 06:49 am
In any discussion that begins with a premise of Biblical revelation, there can be no further debate. Its a waste of precious time on the planet.

Im gonna bail at this point. The topic of this thread has morphed into something with which I would rather not be associated. Theres science going on all around and quoting Bible verses is a personal revelation only. Its totally invalid as a device in logic. "It is debate by employing fortune cookie quotes"

It is, as often called, mumbo jumbo.

write when ya get work.
Rosborne, ci, set, wolf, Brandon, rap, eorl,e brown, Ill catch up on another thread , Im pulling the plug on updates here.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 09:36 am
farmerman wrote:
In any discussion that begins with a premise of Biblical revelation, there can be no further debate. Its a waste of precious time on the planet.

Im gonna bail at this point. The topic of this thread has morphed into something with which I would rather not be associated. Theres science going on all around and quoting Bible verses is a personal revelation only. Its totally invalid as a device in logic. "It is debate by employing fortune cookie quotes"

It is, as often called, mumbo jumbo.

write when ya get work.
Rosborne, ci, set, wolf, Brandon, rap, eorl,e brown, Ill catch up on another thread , Im pulling the plug on updates here.


Says you... The world according "only" to FM... No thanks... Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 09:39 am
FM you can insult the words of God but all it does is show others the shallowness of your heart...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 09:43 am
Actually, farmerman is right concerning his opinion about the absense of logic in quoting from the bible and attempting to talk about science. Mumbo jumbo describes it pretty well, and I'm checking out of this forum too! For farmerman, Rosborne, set, wolf, Brandon, rap, eorl and e brown, see you around in another forum where bible trumpeting doesn't drum out the science and logic.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 10:15 am
Logic...evolution is logical?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:23 pm
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Logic...evolution is logical?


Well, it all depends on what you mean by logical.

If by logical you mean:

Quote:
Logical:
1. Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
2. Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable: Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year.
3. Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.


Obviously, evolution is logical in the fact that it has a logical beginning and a logical end.

One: Mutation occurs.
Two: Natural selection ensures that organisms with bad mutations do not survive, whilst those with good mutations do.
Three: Those with good mutations survive to reproduce and pass on their good mutations.
Four: This continues.

Only the mutation part of evolution is random. The rest, however, is purely logical and non-random.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Actually, farmerman is right concerning his opinion about the absense of logic in quoting from the bible and attempting to talk about science. Mumbo jumbo describes it pretty well, and I'm checking out of this forum too! For farmerman, Rosborne, set, wolf, Brandon, rap, eorl and e brown, see you around in another forum where bible trumpeting doesn't drum out the science and logic.


And you're the ultimate authority and judge on "truth" and right and wrong... haha!? Again, no thanks... I'll take my Bible over your "assumptions" about something you cannot possible even touch with your narrow conjecture...

Contradict God if you want... "belittle" the words if it makes you feel better about yourself... let's see who wins in the end... then we will see who is "evolved"...

I have the promise of these words what do you have? ...nothing but what "you" think.... You are sure that there is no God you can afford to insult God all you want... So much for your unbiased "science". Go "trumpet" your biased self worshiping science in another forum if you like... This is a religious forum... If you cannot stand religion then leave...

1 Corinthians 4:2 + 3a Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment:
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:48 pm
farmerman wrote:
Rosborne, ci, set, wolf, Brandon, rap, eorl,e brown, Ill catch up on another thread , Im pulling the plug on updates here.


Understandable.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 08:22 pm
Ephesians 4:17+18
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:


Comment:

Couldn't have said it better myself...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 08:38 pm
RexRed wrote:
parados wrote:
Quote:
Principles of biblical research

Before one even starts there has to be a belief that it is "The word of God" and is perfect. Scientifically accurate and mathematically precise. Not on the outside but on the inside.

So thus God has a meaning for every word where when and how he uses it.


Does this mean God has a purpose when the words are missing too?
Lots of the scripture is interpolated to make up for missing sections in the original documents. If it is PERFECT, then the missng words must be intentional. Why don't the scholars keep that in the translations?

How about the fact that the original Aramic has no word for wife? Shouldn't that have meaning? Doesn't it make it perfectly clear that God never intended for man to marry?


I believe the figure is hypokadistasis (spelling from memory) or emphasis by omission... This is used in the Bible many times. Missing words are usually intentional. There are many checks and balances in the word that demonstrate a clear picture of what spirituality is and how to utilize the spirit. The basics are evident in the Bible and the miscellaneous are there to speculate on... As to God wanting marriage or not... I believe that God wants love to conqueror hypocrisy... Sometimes that is marriage sometimes it is abstinence we learn the difference when we walk by the spirit and learn what it has to teach our own hearts and minds... Shall anyone compare to the virtue of God?


So God uses words for a purpose and doesn't use words for a purpose. But YOU get to decide what that purpose is. OK. Got it.

We can't argue with someone that is just RIGHT no matter what. I suggest that you are NOT God nor do you know the mind of God. You are just another confused sinner that is trying to justify his own sins by bastardizing the bible to his own purposes.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 09:32 pm
God.


Does God ever grow, learn, change or evolve?

Is there ANY thought process or movement of ideas
within God?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 09:37 pm
According to the bible, yes often.

According to logic, no never. It would negate being omniscient.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 11:32 pm
parados wrote:
RexRed wrote:
parados wrote:
Quote:
Principles of biblical research

Before one even starts there has to be a belief that it is "The word of God" and is perfect. Scientifically accurate and mathematically precise. Not on the outside but on the inside.

So thus God has a meaning for every word where when and how he uses it.


Does this mean God has a purpose when the words are missing too?
Lots of the scripture is interpolated to make up for missing sections in the original documents. If it is PERFECT, then the missng words must be intentional. Why don't the scholars keep that in the translations?

How about the fact that the original Aramic has no word for wife? Shouldn't that have meaning? Doesn't it make it perfectly clear that God never intended for man to marry?


I believe the figure is hypokadistasis (spelling from memory) or emphasis by omission... This is used in the Bible many times. Missing words are usually intentional. There are many checks and balances in the word that demonstrate a clear picture of what spirituality is and how to utilize the spirit. The basics are evident in the Bible and the miscellaneous are there to speculate on... As to God wanting marriage or not... I believe that God wants love to conqueror hypocrisy... Sometimes that is marriage sometimes it is abstinence we learn the difference when we walk by the spirit and learn what it has to teach our own hearts and minds... Shall anyone compare to the virtue of God?


So God uses words for a purpose and doesn't use words for a purpose. But YOU get to decide what that purpose is. OK. Got it.

We can't argue with someone that is just RIGHT no matter what. I suggest that you are NOT God nor do you know the mind of God. You are just another confused sinner that is trying to justify his own sins by bastardizing the bible to his own purposes.


What the heck are you talking about? Where did I say that people have to listen to me? I listen to what the Bible says and, I did not write the book. I have said that people need to "study" the scriptures and let the scriptures interpret themselves... I also presented some principles on "how" to let the word "interpret itself"...

If you think you are right about something in the Bible then give me chapter and verse... I did not say that if words are missing then you only just listen to me, because only I know the truth...

I know the truth because I have read and studied the Bible for years... If there is a figure of speech and a word is missing... then God has possibly chosen to omit the word to emphasize it. It certainly deserves thought. Because God could have just written the word in and been done with it. God could say the ground is dry... but, when God says the ground is thirsty, God does it to give the ground human characteristics.

Thus God uses figures of speech to emphasize certain things. This is not something that one needs to guess at... There are over 500 figures of speech used in the Bible and sometimes 200 varieties of each. The Greeks had a single word for over 500 different figures of speech alone. Figures of speech like giving God human characteristics (the mouth of God, the finger of God, God saw...) when God has no form at all and cannot be seen...

I don't know where you got the idea that I would want anyone to go to the Bible and just make stuff up... The idea is to understand what "it" is trying to say and not what you want it to say...

I can only guess that this is what you accuse Christians of when you don't know what else to say...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 11:57 pm
CodeBorg wrote:
God.


Does God ever grow, learn, change or evolve?

Is there ANY thought process or movement of ideas
within God?


Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Comment:

God is within us seeing our reality...

Let's compare love to God?

Does love change? No... People change, facts change, statistics change. They say they fall out of love, but they simple let love fall out of them...

Does love grow? No... Love is always mature... People find more sentiment and they draw closer to whatever love is but love always comes perfect. Does love evolve... like how? Is that not then saying that love was once primitive and was not love? Does love learn? People learn to love but love has no problem loving and needs no learning. So do we "make" love? Of course not. We "keep" love... Does love have a parent? Love's parents surely had love... God is love... Love never changes, circumstances and emotions, feelings change... but love never changes...

Now give me a scientific formula for love... and we can get out a bunsen burner and a test tube and heat it up and get "hot love"... Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 12:10 am
Eorl wrote:
According to the bible, yes often.

According to logic, no never. It would negate being omniscient.


I will agree with you that it appears on the surface that God changes in the Bible...

But it is not God changing but humans changing and evolving and learning to understand God and God meeting them on their own level and raising them up to a higher existence...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 12:34 am
The other day a doctor friend of mine came over to visit... He was having a severe problem with his hand... Gout... He is a surgeon at the local emergency room and a dear friend... Well he could not even close his fingers together. His whole hand was swollen to almost twice it's size. All of his medications had failed and he was in pain... We were just talking over tea and suddenly I shared a part of myself that I had never really revealed to him before... I asked him If I could pray for his hand... He said, yes, and I took his hand in mine and closed my eyes and began to pray out loud but softly. I said, (Not in my exact words but my style of praying). God I want to thank you for my friends hand. I want to thank you for all of the internal parts to function properly. I want to thank you for the right nutrients and healing to restore this hand to it's perfect function. I thank you for this in the name of your wonderful son, our living lord and saviour Christ Jesus, Amen...

Well my friend called me up rather late that night and was so thankful for my having prayed for him... I was surprised... I felt that for a doctor who has seen so much trauma to recognize the power of prayer was such a beautiful thing to observe for myself... Needless to say, I saw his hand yesterday (a week later) and he thanked me again... he can now close his fingers and the gout has reversed itself. His skin looked like it had a bit of scaling from the fever subsiding... I rejoiced in God... this is first aid... When you ask God to show you things you will be amazed...
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 06:17 am
RexRed wrote:
The other day a doctor friend of mine came over to visit... He was having a severe problem with his hand... Gout... He is a surgeon at the local emergency room and a dear friend... Well he could not even close his fingers together. His whole hand was swollen to almost twice it's size. All of his medications had failed and he was in pain... We were just talking over tea and suddenly I shared a part of myself that I had never really revealed to him before... I asked him If I could pray for his hand... He said, yes, and I took his hand in mine and closed my eyes and began to pray out loud but softly. I said, (Not in my exact words but my style of praying). God I want to thank you for my friends hand. I want to thank you for all of the internal parts to function properly. I want to thank you for the right nutrients and healing to restore this hand to it's perfect function. I thank you for this in the name of your wonderful son, our living lord and saviour Christ Jesus, Amen...

Well my friend called me up rather late that night and was so thankful for my having prayed for him... I was surprised... I felt that for a doctor who has seen so much trauma to recognize the power of prayer was such a beautiful thing to observe for myself... Needless to say, I saw his hand yesterday (a week later) and he thanked me again... he can now close his fingers and the gout has reversed itself. His skin looked like it had a bit of scaling from the fever subsiding... I rejoiced in God... this is first aid... When you ask God to show you things you will be amazed...


Erm... are you sure this post is in the right thread?
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 06:17 am
Quote:
What the heck are you talking about? Where did I say that people have to listen to me? I listen to what the Bible says and, I did not write the book. I have said that people need to "study" the scriptures and let the scriptures interpret themselves... I also presented some principles on "how" to let the word "interpret itself"...

If you think you are right about something in the Bible then give me chapter and verse... I did not say that if words are missing then you only just listen to me, because only I know the truth...


Rex, they never let the bible "interpret itself" instead they go into it with bias, and they look for error...its hilarious because if this was how they looked at every book, they would never learn anything.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 06:18 am
Wolf_O'Donnell: It appears that you are unfamiliar with RR's "contributions" to this topic, in their totality.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 06:22 am
What does that have to do with what I just stated? I don't agree with Rex on everything, but this was one thing we were in kahoots on, and I just let him know. Do you have a problem with that?
0 Replies
 
 

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