Evolution? How?

Vol_Fan,

"Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time."

A.E. Houseman

If you haven't come to the conclusion yet; yes I am calling you ignorant. You have no idea of what you are speaking. In the future please refrain from posting such garbage until you do some research, from a competent source.



This one of the many arguments against interracial relationships, and before you say that this does not have anything to do with the subject at hand, let me explain myself.
These people say that breeding between different races would taint the children, pollute the gene pool. The fact however is that interracial breeding could be a tool for evolution, the resulting children receiving benefits from each race. The same applies to your dogs, after 25 years, the resulting breed would be much better acclimated, stronger, and healthier than their progenitors.

If you put various varieties of dogs on an island you are merely putting one species on the island. The definition of species is the ability to interbreed..
Everywhere we look, we can see the process of evolution occuring. from artificial selection in induced drug resistance , to actual changing of entire species that derive from a common "foundation" species undergoing geographic isolation. We see this in fish, insects, mammals, and even plants.
Theres much that needs to be reviewed before you can make your claims of "non occurence".
Ill read your reccomended Case for Christ. I like hearing various takes on things.Quid pro Quo, so Ill reccommend that you
Read DNA by James Watson

vol's quote, "The bible has been proven archaelogically and historically to be accurate." According to the bible, earth is only 5,000-6,000 years old. Scientists have repeatedly proven that earth is millions upon millions of years old. The sun is much older than earth. God cannot create earth days without the sun.

The Age of the Earth
by Chris Stassen
Copyright © 1996-7
[Last Update: April 22, 1997]

The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.

Unfortunately, the age cannot be computed directly from material that is solely from the Earth. There is evidence that energy from the Earth's accumulation caused the surface to be molten. Further, the processes of erosion and crustal recycling have apparently destroyed all of the earliest surface.

The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth's actual age.

Imposter, No one has established how long the "days" were that are being refered to in the bible. This is a debate among christians too. One thing that I always find is that you use the information from extreme evolutionist. I have seen a video series from a scientist who in fact was and evolutionist. He went back and traced everything that he had found about his/their theory and put it up against creationism. He realized that his "facts" were wrong. In these videos he shows exactly what he did. Don't take that as my solid proof only by that movie, but it shows that you have to see and use both sides to understand it. I guarantee that more scientist swich from evolution to creation than the other way around. To help my comment I will try to find out the name of that video series and let you know so that you may watch it if you want.

Eryemil, the will to call someone ignorant comes from someone who with out a shadow of a doubt is not ignorant. You have proven that you yourself are ignorant to an extent. I am trying to be more "open-minded" about these subjects. I see that the one-sided "stubburn" people on here(including myself) are getting no where but the exact spot we were in when we first started this topic. We all come in here with a mindset that whatever we say is true and end of story. I witnessed today that not listening to the other side and being"ignorant" is a bad representation for your "religion" or atheistic beliefs.

Quote, " I guarantee that more scientist swich from evolution to creation than the other way around." I needed a good laugh today, and you povided it. Thank you. ROTFLMAO

your welcome and the sarcasm is noted.

His post about the de-evolution of a species as a result of interbreeding among the same species was indeed ignorant and his information was completely inaccurate. Everyone here, including myself does research in order to form a debatable argument.

I don't use such words lightly, but in this case it was well deserved. I only have one prejudice, that I am aware of, and that is against fools who argue for the sake of arguing. Fools in general do it for me too. ^^

. I have one question. how did the sun form? what (who) formed it? If you say gases formed it? How did those gases get there? How did the earth form? How did what form it get created? How did the first thing in the universe that started this whole thing get created?

After what hotf said i will try to view everything unbiasedly. not that i'll change my mind. but i'll listen and think about what you have to say and i can only hope you will do the same with my comments.

please farmerman tell me what you think when you get done. I'd like to hear what you thought about it.

vol-fan, What does the "origin of the sun" have to do with evolution? Nothing. It a baseless comparison. Evolutionary theory is silent on cosmology. Try not to extend an argument beyond its data.
As ci stated, the first sedimentary rocks have been dated by use of dating zircon and radiogenic material therein. The interesting thing is that , in the Isua Formation , dated at about 3.75+/- Bybp, there is already evidence of simple "life"related isotopes of carbon.

Theres ample evidence on evolution from over 150 years of non "agenda" observation and research. Creation advocates have nothing to compare. Their only basis of fact is their constant attempts to refute the findings from standard science and to try to legitamize certain claims in the Bible (such as "behemoth" living along side humans and this being considered proof; or the cryptic content of Peter II as a refutation of Uniformitarian concepts; or the insistance of a worldwide "Flood: when no such evidence exists). The results of the story of evolution have been derived from thousands of individual bits of overlapping evidence. Maybe none of which are particularly exciting but in the aggregate, they compose a very compelling story thats quite robust.

There are two types of questions you are asking... There are scientific questions, and there are philosophical questions.

How did the Sun form is a scientific question.

We can take measurements that tell us what the sun is made of. We can look at chemicals in the solar system and of gasses around our sun. We can compare these gasses with similar gasses in other parts of the galaxy. We can look at other stars... some of which are forming right now... and compare this with our sun.

We have done all of these things, scientifically, and we can be pretty confident about what we know. That is science.

Who formed the Sun (meaning who designed it) is a philosophical question.

There is no way that sciece can detect a creator. Some people (with the watch in the desert thing) will claim that the complexity is evidence of a creator, but this is also a philosophical claim. There is no way to test to see if a Universe with a God would be any different than a Universe without a God. This question is completely outside the scope of science.

How did the Earth form is a scientific question.

How did the gasses get there is also a scientific question. As we get further back there is less evidece to work with, and thus scientists are a bit less certain. But science is pretty good at knowing how certain we are about its discoveries. We can study the gasses and compare with measurements we take from comets. We are still doing these things and the science is still growing.

Of course "How did the first thing in the universe that started this whole thing get created?" is a very philosophical question. Science has tools to study what happened in the past, and we have very convincing evidence that it started with the Big Bang, but there is absolutely no way to say why the Big Bang happened or What started it. These questions are outside of science and quite possibly always will be.

If you want to understand Science you should listen to the scientists. Mainstream science has been very successful at describing our world, explaining phenomina, making predictions, and using this understanding to create technology.

We understand a lot about how our solar system formed from our use of scientific analysis.

There are questions that science can not answer. Why things happen is the perfect example. And, although God has made nature very organized and predictable (which is why science is so effective), God has not made Himself very open to scientific analysis.

Does anyone think (as I am tending to) that Creationists cling so vehermently to their views because they can't accept that intelligent life has come into existence on this planet (and probably others) by accident? Does it come from an over-inflated sense of self-importance?

I believe that the universe is a set of particles and energy, interacting and operating through a set of rules (gravity, the electromagnetic rules, molecular bonds, quantum mechanics, whatever). Science has/is/will attempt to determine what these particles, energies and rules are by observation, measurement and deduction. I have faith in Science.

If you ask me where the particles, energies and rules came from in the first place (before the Big Bang), then, I believe, we are entering the realm of Faith.

Faith in a higher force is completely compatible with Science, if viewed like that.

well how was the sun formed? How did the stuff that formed the earth get created? Here are more questions. How is our body so intricately designed by accident? I want answers don't beat around the bush.

everybody on here is telling me to use reason and logic. Well, I am using reason and logic and the whole universe being created by accident doesn't seem reasonable or logical.

how was all the scientific stuff you talked about created? How did it become what it is?

has evolution stopped. I mean I don't see us or any other animal turning into a completely different species? I want answers.

From google (and there are many good scientific answers on these questions)...

How the Sun was formed

Origin of the Solar System (i.e. Earth)

For your last question... well first I don't agree with the word "accident". Science does not answer "why" something happened. It only answers "how" something happened. But of course, the answer you are looking for is evolution.

But the question you have to answer for yourself is whether you will believe the results of modern science or not.

I think we are all in agreement here that science does not say there is no God. It is certainly possible that God started the Universe with Evolution in mind and you and I as his intended end products.

But science is very good at determining the how. As we have said, scientists have discovered overwhelming evidence on how the Sun was formed, how the planets formed, and how life formed.

You need to stop confusing religious belief with scientific discovery. There is room for religious belief to explain the meaning and the why of our world. But science is far better at explaining the processes that govern and shape our world.

well somebody earlier on here said earth was created by accident. But aren't atheists not supposed to believe in a God. If God did it then thats creationism.
I haven't really gotten a straight answer yet on the origin of the stuff that created earth and the sun and everything else.

First, a question for you. I fear you have already made up your mind and are just looking for a way to attack the scientific point of view.

Are you really seeking answers? Scientists have fully investigated these questions with open minds and have come up with anwers.

This is outside of my field, but there is a ton of scientific information available...

Evolution has not stopped. There are many documented examples of new species developing. See...

Modern example NZ's evolution

and

Observed Instances of Speciation

Now there are parts of Biology (as with any branch of science) where there are things we don't know. Part of science is knowing what has been proven, and what is still being questioned. The future, of course, has many questions we can't answer.

But the vast majority of people who have studied the evidence... including those who are at the forefront of biology and developing the new drugs and technologies based on evolutionary theory, accept evolution as proven fact.

You need to choose between your religious beliefs and modern science.

There are answers to many of these questions (and yes there are many questions science hasn't or even can't answer). But if you are starting with your hardfast religious belief and looking to attack all of the evidence that the scientists have provided, you aren't going to get any answers...

No, evolution has not stopped. It does, however happen very very slowly. Too slowly to notice most of the time. Medical science has slowed it down for humans, by extending the life of people who would not have survived otherwise, and allowing, in some instances, certain "weak" genes to be passed on.