Evolution? How?

RexRed wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Rex, I don't have to rewrite history; but you sure do! Show us any evidence that your imaginary friend ever existed - now or in the past. Evidence we can all agree is substantiated by observation.

You can't use the bible to support the bible. That's called circular logic.

So should I use "your (or anyone else's) opinion" to support the Bible or study the Bible to understand what it means.

2Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Comment:

You are just simply wrong.

Now, should we look up the words (private interpretation) in a dictionary or look them up in the Bible where the words have been used before to understand the passage?

It seems you have gone the dictionary route...

But when you look the words up in the Bible THEY DEFINE THEMSELVES...

It is no wonder why you reject the Bible and God... You have PRIVATELY INTERPRETED the Bible to fit YOUR OWN private Godless religion.

Since you are back up this silly alley, Rex...I'll give you another shot at it.

Take a look at this quote from the Bible again...and do not interpret it. The words, as you pointed out, define themselves.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13

So what are the words saying? What is being taught here? What does your god think about homosexual activity?


C'mon, Rex.

Not very humble is it Rex?

Isn't a Godly person supposed to be humble?

Frank Apisa wrote:

RexRed wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Rex, I don't have to rewrite history; but you sure do! Show us any evidence that your imaginary friend ever existed - now or in the past. Evidence we can all agree is substantiated by observation.

You can't use the bible to support the bible. That's called circular logic.

So should I use "your (or anyone else's) opinion" to support the Bible or study the Bible to understand what it means.

2Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Comment:

You are just simply wrong.

Now, should we look up the words (private interpretation) in a dictionary or look them up in the Bible where the words have been used before to understand the passage?

It seems you have gone the dictionary route...

But when you look the words up in the Bible THEY DEFINE THEMSELVES...

It is no wonder why you reject the Bible and God... You have PRIVATELY INTERPRETED the Bible to fit YOUR OWN private Godless religion.

Since you are back up this silly alley, Rex...I'll give you another shot at it.

Take a look at this quote from the Bible again...and do not interpret it. The words, as you pointed out, define themselves.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13

So what are the words saying? What is being taught here? What does your god think about homosexual activity?


C'mon, Rex.

I have explained this and you simply hate the God of the Bible out of laziness and complacency AND so you DON'T LISTEN ANYWAY... God is JUST but you are the one projecting your own evil into the Bible. It is there for you to do so. You are not God Frank but you think you can judge the wisdom of God but you have only made yourself into the fool.

What is the point?

When I explained that exact scripture 20 pages back my answer was the same as it is now... It was the same answer as when I explained it 5 years ago to you.

THERE ARE TWO GODS IN THE BIBLE. MOSES WAS NOT INFALLIBLE. But, you are quite fallible. Especially how you select only the scriptures that you are motivated at any cost to make God (of the Bible) look bad. You cancel out the good of God for your "man in the dark" routine...

I do not have to ignore or skip over scriptures in the Bible as you do. If I were to take one part and not the rest than the Bible would be no better than any other book. I take the Bible as God inspirited. You hack and slash... It is no wonder you don't know God... You never wanted to know God. Law was supplied in the OT because there was a limited connection to God spiritually. But it seems you cannot comprehend such loft.

So go hate the TRUE God of the Bible out of wrong teaching and ignorance if it brings you self deliverance from you own fabricated fears...

Jeremiah 2:13
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Law versus liberty

Something Frank you may seemingly never understand.

Frank have you every had a STD? Gonorrhea, Syphilis, Genital warts, Aids, Herpes? The list goes on... You can't go to the rabbi and get a vaccination in the desert and a handful of condoms at the bar free.

STD's are a fate often worse than stoning especially how they can often spread without even having sexual contact in some cases. How about a tiny little case of spinal meningitis?

Adulterers were stoned to death too. (why don't you post those scriptures?) they wouldn't suit your purpose in defaming God would they Frank. They would more than less take the wind out of your sails.

Do you think people may have SURVIVED due to the harshness of these laws?

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

RexRed wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

RexRed wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Rex, I don't have to rewrite history; but you sure do! Show us any evidence that your imaginary friend ever existed - now or in the past. Evidence we can all agree is substantiated by observation.

You can't use the bible to support the bible. That's called circular logic.

So should I use "your (or anyone else's) opinion" to support the Bible or study the Bible to understand what it means.

2Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Comment:

You are just simply wrong.

Now, should we look up the words (private interpretation) in a dictionary or look them up in the Bible where the words have been used before to understand the passage?

It seems you have gone the dictionary route...

But when you look the words up in the Bible THEY DEFINE THEMSELVES...

It is no wonder why you reject the Bible and God... You have PRIVATELY INTERPRETED the Bible to fit YOUR OWN private Godless religion.

Since you are back up this silly alley, Rex...I'll give you another shot at it.

Take a look at this quote from the Bible again...and do not interpret it. The words, as you pointed out, define themselves.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13

So what are the words saying? What is being taught here? What does your god think about homosexual activity?


C'mon, Rex.

I have explained this and you simply hate the God of the Bible out of laziness and complacency AND so you DON'T LISTEN ANYWAY... God is JUST but you are the one projecting your own evil into the Bible. It is there for you to do so. You are not God Frank but you think you can judge the wisdom of God but you have only made yourself into the fool.

What is the point?

When I explained that exact scripture 20 pages back my answer was the same as it is now... It was the same answer as when I explained it 5 years ago to you.

THERE ARE TWO GODS IN THE BIBLE. MOSES WAS NOT INFALLIBLE. But, you are quite fallible. Especially how you select only the scriptures that you are motivated at any cost to make God (of the Bible) look bad. You cancel out the good of God for your "man in the dark" routine...

I do not have to ignore or skip over scriptures in the Bible as you do. If I were to take one part and not the rest than the Bible would be no better than any other book. I take the Bible as God inspirited. You hack and slash... It is no wonder you don't know God... You never wanted to know God. Law was supplied in the OT because there was a limited connection to God spiritually. But it seems you cannot comprehend such loft.

So go hate the TRUE God of the Bible out of wrong teaching and ignorance if it brings you self deliverance from you own fabricated fears...

Jeremiah 2:13
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Law versus liberty

Something Frank you may seemingly never understand.

Frank have you every had a STD? Gonorrhea, Syphilis, Genital warts, Aids, Herpes? The list goes on... You can't go to the rabbi and get a vaccination in the desert and a handful of condoms at the bar free.

STD's are a fate often worse than stoning especially how they can often spread without even having sexual contact in some cases. How about a tiny little case of spinal meningitis?

Adulterers were stoned to death too. (why don't you post those scriptures?) they wouldn't suit your purpose in defaming God would they Frank. They would more than less take the wind out of your sails.

Do you think people may have SURVIVED due to the harshness of these laws?

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

AND THIS IS THE GUY CLAIMING OTHERS ARE DISTORTING THE BIBLE BY INTERPRETING IT CONVENIENTLY!!!

What a laugh!

But what a pity there are people so frightened of this particular boogeyman that they will torture logic and the language to pretend the god is not the barbaric, murderous monster it is.

Hey...whatever get ya past the graveyard.

Yup - we all gotta deal with our fears whatever way we know how....

[How about this excerpt?
- Men who engage in sodomy are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. Men who commit acts of sodomy with men have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs. Control of STDs is a central component of HIV infection prevention in the United States; resurgence of bacterial STDs threatens national HIV infection prevention efforts.5

Comment:
Do you think maybe God knows something?

snood wrote:

Yup - we all gotta deal with our fears whatever way we know how....

Fears are better "defeated" rather than "dealt with"...

RexRed wrote:

snood wrote:

Yup - we all gotta deal with our fears whatever way we know how....

Fears are better "defeated" rather than "dealt with"...

Jeez, there wasn't even anything in what I said to argue about...

I bow to your superior semantics, oh most wise.

RexRed wrote:

[How about this excerpt?
- Men who engage in sodomy are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. Men who commit acts of sodomy with men have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs. Control of STDs is a central component of HIV infection prevention in the United States; resurgence of bacterial STDs threatens national HIV infection prevention efforts.5

Comment:
Do you think maybe God knows something?

So are you saying that the passage applies...or does not apply?

And don't you think stoning someone to death is even more of a risk than dealing with sexually transmitted diseases?

It is incredible the kinds of mental gymnastics you folks are willing to do in order not to acknowledge that this supposed book of god...is no more reliable as an indicator of "what is" than is Snow White.

Life is complicated Frank as it is. The passage definitely applied back then but today it deserves consideration but does not necessarily apply. (except in heinous rape and murder cases.)

4 to 5000 years ago I say the laws of the OT were fair considering the risk to the "tribe" (and we must not forget the promised Christ seed and God's REAL foreknowledge)...

Today they (OT laws) do not apply as much because the health risk on promiscuous sex is only 600 time greater rather than several thousand percent as it was back then.

But again Frank you are not often likely to give God the benefit of the doubt because you really have something to prove... You have a hidden agenda that clouds the real scriptural meaning. Hatred for what the church/religion did to you as a child maybe. No worse than what you are doing to God now.

Now who is really playing the mental gymnastics?

Peace with God

Evolution's Lonely Battle in a Georgia Classroom
(By MICHAEL WINERIP, New York Times, June 28, 2006)

Occasionally, an educational battle will dominate national headlines. More commonly, the battling goes on locally, behind closed doors, handled so discreetly that even a teacher working a few classrooms away might not know.

This was the case for Pat New, 62, a respected, veteran middle school science teacher, who, a year ago, quietly stood up for her right to teach evolution in this rural northern Georgia community, and prevailed.

She would not discuss the conflict while still teaching, because Ms. New wouldn't let anything disrupt her classroom. But she has decided to retire, a year earlier than planned. "This evolution thing was a lot of stress," she said. And a few weeks ago, on the very last day of her 29-year career, at 3:15, when Lumpkin County Middle School had emptied for the summer, and she had taken down her longest poster from Room D11A ?- the 15-billion-year timeline ranging from the Big Bang to the evolution of man ?- she recounted one teacher's discreet battle.

She isn't sure how many questioned her teaching of evolution ?- perhaps a dozen parents, teachers and administrators and several students in her seventh-grade life science class. They sent e-mail messages and letters, stopped her in the hall, called board members, demanded meetings, requested copies of the PBS videos that she showed in class.

One parent asked how money could be wasted on a subject like evolution: "As budget cuts continuously chip away at our children's future of a good, quality college-ready education," she wrote, "I would think there would be more educational, more worthwhile and certainly more factual learning that could be taught." She requested that her son be permitted to "bide his time elsewhere" when evolution was taught.

Ms. New explained that evolution is so central to biology, the boy would be biding elsewhere all year long. Practically every chapter in her Prentice Hall textbooks ?- "Bacteria to Plants," "Cells and Heredity," "Animals" ?- used evolution to trace the development of life starting with bacteria, green algae and gymnosperms.

The books were purchased by her district, and she sent her supervisors copies, marking evolution references with dozens of Post-its, but it didn't seem to register. On April 25, 2005, during a meeting about parent complaints with her principal, Rick Conner, she recalled: "He took a Bible off the bookshelf behind him and said, 'Patty I believe in everything in this book, do you?' I told him, 'I really feel uncomfortable about your asking that question.' He wouldn't let it go.' " The next day, she said, in the lunchroom, "he reached across the table, took my hand and said: 'I accept evolution in most things but if they ever say God wasn't involved I couldn't accept that. I want you to say that, Pat.' "

Asked to comment during an interview here, Mr. Conner would say only, "I don't want to talk about it."

Four days after her encounter with the principal, Ms. New was summoned to a meeting with the superintendent, Dewey Moye, as well as the principal and two parents upset about her teaching evolution. "We have to let parents ask questions," Mr. Moye told her. "It's a public school. In a democracy people can ask questions."

Ms. New said the parents, "badgered, got loud and sarcastic and there was no support from administrators."

Babs Greene, another administrator, "asked if I was almost finished teaching evolution," Ms. New recalled. "I explained to her again that it is a unifying concept in life science. It is in every unit I teach. There was a big sigh."

"I thought I was going crazy," said Ms. New, who has won several outstanding teacher awards and is one of only two teachers at her school with national board certification. The other is her husband, Ward.

"It takes a lot to stand up and be willing to have people angry at you," she said. But Ms. New did. She repeatedly urged her supervisors to read Georgia's science standards, particularly S7L5, which calls for teaching evolution.

On May 5, 2005, she filled out a complaint to initiate a grievance under state law, writing that she was being "threatened and harassed" though "I am following approved curriculum." She also wrote, "If we could get together within 24 hours and settle this and I feel I have support to teach the standards, then I would tear it up."

Suddenly the superintendent was focused on standards. Mr. Moye called the state department's middle school science supervisor and asked about evolution.

"Obviously the State Department of Education supports evolution," Mr. Moye said in an interview.

Obviously? So why call? "I wanted to be sure," he said. "Let's make sure what these standards are."

He added: "I feel strongly about the Georgia standards. I think it's very important. Obviously we'll teach standards; that's the law. We will do everything in accordance with the Department of Education."

"I explained to parents that we're following the state standards," Mr. Moye said. "I said, 'You can believe what you want, but we have to teach the standards.' If they're upset, they can take it up on the state level."

The superintendent, principal and Ms. Greene all praised Ms. New's ability. "The lady's an excellent teacher," Mr. Moye said, adding, "Maybe she felt like the school system didn't support her. We certainly support her."

Ms. New said that from then on, including the entire 2005-06 school year, she had no problem teaching evolution. "What saved me was I didn't have to argue evolution with these people. All I had to say was, 'I'm following state standards.' "

Gerry Wheeler, director of the National Science Teachers Association, said membership surveys indicated that a third of teachers were challenged on evolution, mainly by parents and students. A survey of state science standards by the Fordham Institute, a conservative policy research organization that supports teaching evolution, rated 20 states, including Georgia, with "sound" evolution standards in 2005, down from 24 states in 2000.

Wake up...or lay off the beer, Spendi.

Rex is asserting that the Bible is the literal word of his god...and he claims it should not be interpreted...but used exactly as written.

So I am challenging him.

FA wrote-

Quote:

Wake up...or lay off the beer, Spendi.

Rex is asserting that the Bible is the literal word of his god...and he claims it should not be interpreted...but used exactly as written.

So I am challenging him.

Come on Frank- that won't do at all. Any plonker can respond to a point like that but it is considered unseemly for grown up men.

A puff of a zephyr can blow Rex away. Call that a challenge. That's like throwing big dusters at a pile of empty cans from 3 feet at the fairground to win a prize worth half the entrance fee.

By answering Rex on the literal interpretation you are three quarters of the way to taking it seriously.

Right-

Not only was my point valid it was also limited in scope.

Other points to consider from 3000 years ago might include

1-The removal of a role for the ladies which is important not only to make money go round faster but also to prevent them having nothing to do which always results in them creating mischief. Big Business is hardly going to approve of a need being satisfied on a DIY mutual lending system.

2-The difficulties encountered when sexual jealousy is aroused in close knit military units.

3-The threat to the birth rate if male homosexuality became popular for wallet protection schemes which would quickly result in the authorities having nobody to shove around.

4-The dying out of traditional practices such as-

a-The Chinook.
b-The Fork Lift Truck.
c-The Flying Buttress.
d-The Chicago Shuffle.
e-The Dutch Wink.
f- Newton's Cradle.etc
and replacing them with Hobson's Choice.

5-The absence of inspiration to compose lines such as-

"The one with the moustache says "Jeeze-I can't find my knees", or The Song of Solomon and its plethora of derivatives.

6-The extermination of the sense of humour.

All these considerations, and much more, must be taken into account to understand why society disapproves of male homosexuality and in the days of Leviticus that disapproval resulted in a stoning whereas in our more humane times derisory contempt is all we are allowed. Nothing much has changed except the manner in which the disapproval is expressed.

Wilful failure to see this point is "obtuse" which is where I came in.

Answer that Frank.

Biblical translations
Many of Tyndale's translations - of the entire Pentateuch, the Books of Joshua, Judges, Ruth, First and Second Samuel, First and Second Kings, First and Second Chronicles (contained in Matthew's Bible of 1537), and of the Book of Jonah - formed the basis for respective portions in the Authorized Version, in which they constitute nine-tenths of the said chapters. Moreover, his translations make up significant portions of the Revised Version.

His Biblical translations appeared in the following order: New Testament, 1525-26 ; Pentateuch, 1530; Jonah, 1531. There is no general title of the Pentateuch; each separate book (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) has its own title.

Setanta,

I was also surprised at the poor rating on state standards regarding evolution education. The news article I posted reveals interference with science education that otherwise escapes public notice.