Evolution? How?

This thread has evolved in such a marked manner, that I no longer recognise it as the old organism it once was...

(In other words, what the Hell are you guys talking about?)

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No, whats on second.

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Then who's on first?

RR wouldn't let any bit of scientific knowledge penetrate his head -- it might give him a migraine.

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Correct.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

This thread has evolved in such a marked manner, that I no longer recognise it as the old organism it once was...

Thats's evolution for you.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Then who's on first?

RR wouldn't let any bit of scientific knowledge penetrate his head -- it might give him a migraine.

Your point is not convincing considering I am the Christian who believes in "evolution"...

I just wanted to know if you have even considered the body soul and spirit stuff. I cannot go to my next point until everyone has understood. I did not want to leave you behind.

Precious little of the Bible can be understood without understanding BSS(body soul and spirit) If you consider soul and spirit to be the same thing then you have not understood.

If you consider the words made, formed and created synonymous you have not understood.

Things get complicated from here on in.

Now you might consider that not one person knew the difference between soul and spirit before I came into this thread and began to teach a difference. This should indicate the widespread ignorance of the actual meaning of the Bible.

How can you prove the Bible wrong when you do not even understand what you are opposing.

I am not saying that soul or spirit exist. I am just saying the Bible has defined soul and spirit to be different things. Yet the entire Christian world sees them as the same thing.

Where does the soul go at death? Where does the spirit go? What part of Jesus was divine? I told you it gets complicated. Without understanding body soul and spirit these things death and the divinity of Christ (and many more things)... CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD.

This is what I mean about error built upon error.

As for Franks comments, how about we start with the simple stuff and then move on to the stoning of homos/adulterers and also the mexican "slaves" in California... Franks diversionary tactics have only diverted Frank from understanding too.

Frank knows about the OT scriptures but can he rightly define "Biblically" the difference between soul and spirit.

I have been trying to get Frank to understand BSS for over 7 years and I still wonder if it has stuck.

Three little words can be such a conundrum.

Again I am not saying body soul and spirit are the truth. But this conversation is all over the map and it would at least be a good thing to know which of the three someone is talking about. Even if none of you do know what you mean.

We are not even sure of how the body evolved let alone how life evolved... And the spirit may forever elude science.

Now an intelligent conversation of life and the spirit can be had because of the Bible's wisdom on who we are.

If you are having trouble understanding the difference between soul and spirit then let's talk about it.

It is amazing how you can read something with your eyes closed then finish reading with them open.

Repetition is the best way to learn something. So I will stick with this BSS until I feel everyone has a working knowledge. Then let's see where this conversation on evolution has changed by the very nature of these words and how they classify the universe.

Ge 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [made life]; and man became a living soul.

Ge 1:27
So God created man in his own image [spirit], in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Formed made created, body soul and spirit is probably Genesis' greatest lesson to us.

And to think not one of you knew it.

So what qualifies any of you to debunk something you have little understanding of? Well I will qualify you then you can debate evolution and actually make some ground.

Peace with God

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Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

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BSS -- isn't that actually Bull **** Supreme?

Also, I know evolution is correct as far as our origins, not the fable of the bible, but I can also comprehend a soul or spirit. Suggest you read this book and it's follow up volume:

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-18-webster.html

As far as any higher power, Aristotle's The Great Mover can work for me.

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ros wrote-about feminists who think we bring girls up to be sex slaves

Quote:

A fringe element can always be found which sees things in an extreme way. Just look at yourself.

Sheer self-serving complacency ros. They are no fringe element now. They might have been when Germaine Greer said that all men are rapists in the '60s but they have media by the short hairs now, especially TV for easily explained reasons. You just blurted out a convenient assertion on behalf of your own self esteem. Underestimating the opposition is a garuanteed method of getting flattened.

I hope you don't think I'm on the fringes simply because you say so. Don't you ever get fed up with thinking that what you say is true on the evidence of you having said it. That might not be fringe stuff where you work and play but it is so extremely on the fringe in intellectual circles that two examples of it would result in ostracism.

You haven't the faintest idea how to tackle Rex. He didn't even attempt to answer that post of mine because he knew he couldn't but he can run rings round you all day long.You are actually empowering him.

Look at this ros-

Quote:

Yes they do. And you do quite a bit of distorting yourself.

Being a bit selective eh? Do I only distort things when you don't agree.

Back to square one. Assertion as evidence. You are always asking Rex to provide proof and yet here you are,twice in one post, asserting things you don't prove.

You just have one rule for yourself and another one for your protagonist.

Same old story. If it's a Who Can Shout Loudest competition ,as you have proved you think it is quite comprehensively, Rex is way ahead on points and you are throwing feather dusters.

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Lightwizard wrote:

BSS -- isn't that actually Bull **** Supreme?

Also, I know evolution is correct as far as our origins, not the fable of the bible, but I can also comprehend a soul or spirit. Suggest you read this book and it's follow up volume:

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-18-webster.html

As far as any higher power, Aristotle's The Great Mover can work for me.

Evolution is only part of the whole picture.

Soul or spirit or soul and spirit?

What (theoretically) is the soul what is the spirit?

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Read the book.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Read the book.

I bet if I were to read the whole book I would not learn the difference between soul and spirit.

You are just trying to distract the attention from yourself.

If you were to sell your "soul" wouldn't you be dead?

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Another admission that you do refuse to learn anything other than what you've determined is the truth. If I tried to explain it to you, it would take a book as long as "The Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul." You haven't in any way defined what you mean by soul or spirit or the difference. If you need someone else to explain it to you, you are at zero.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Another admission that you do refuse to learn anything other than what you've determined is the truth. If I tried to explain it to you, it would take a book as long as "The Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul." You haven't in any way defined what you mean by soul or spirit or the difference. If you need someone else to explain it to you, you are at zero.

I have indeed explained but you have not understood...

I could easily go back and paste my replies from this very thread.

Maybe I have not explained it well enough though it is rather simple. The problem is not the simplicity of the concept but the complexity of your understanding.

Now this is the biblical definitions not the world definitions.

The soul is "breath life". All living animals and humans (believer and non believer) have a soul. (There is "still" life also in plants in the realm of soul.)

The spirit is a different thing than the soul though they are both a form of life.

The soul we receive when we take our first breath and we lose it in our last breath. The concept of selling one's soul is rather erroneous.

"Spiritually" we are born from birth with the spirit of the world, but we receive a different spirit when we are born again of God's spirit.

Thus the spiritual reality is different than the soul reality.

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Rex-

That conclusion from those premisses is ridiculous. Only someone who believes those premisses can come to those conclusions.

You might have said "Thus I believe the spiritual reality is different from the soul reality." Not just "Thus".

And you are still only up to where you came in.

When you answer that post of mine I might take you more seriously. It is pointless to argue against asserted beliefs.

It is a belief to think there is actually soul and spirit in the first place never mind that there is a difference between them. Some would say that such beliefs are somewhat egotistical in that anybody who thinks they know anything at all about these matters is getting a bit above himself.

Now if you were to talk about the spirit and the soul of our culture, of which you are a miniscule part, as it is manifested in our symbolism and in our highest actions you might begin to make some headway. As it is you are running on the spot like those long gone cultures from whose writings you quote.

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RexRed wrote:

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

But who can ever forget:

"Therefore, he who has any of the following defects may not come
forward: he who is blind, or lame, or who has any disfigurement
or malformation, or crippled foot or hand....he may not approach
the veil nor go up to the altar on account of these defects; he
shall not profane these things that are sacred to me, for it is
I, the Lord, who make them sacred." Leviticus 21:18ff

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That's as heavy metal as heavy metal gets Frank.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

RexRed wrote:
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

But who can ever forget:

"Therefore, he who has any of the following defects may not come
forward: he who is blind, or lame, or who has any disfigurement
or malformation, or crippled foot or hand....he may not approach
the veil nor go up to the altar on account of these defects; he
shall not profane these things that are sacred to me, for it is
I, the Lord, who make them sacred." Leviticus 21:18ff

Frank,

The OT people could not see spiritually all they could see were the defects of the flesh...

Like you Frank, you cannot see spiritually (NT) all you can see are the defects of the flesh (OT)...

You post fleshly scriptures having to do with the body yet you are oblivious to the scriptural matters of the spirit and soul.

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My comments are in red

spendius wrote:

Rex-

That conclusion from those premisses is ridiculous. Only someone who believes those premisses can come to those conclusions.

WRONG... Someone comes to this conclusion from studying the Bible. Just because you believe that is what the Bible means does not mean you have to believe it is truth. How can you argue with me when you think the Bible says something it doesn't? The Bible defines soul as one thing and spirit as another. I am not saying it is right or wrong I am just saying your perspective on what the Bible says and means regarding soul and spirit is wrong. Because soul is NOT spirit (BIBLICALLY).

You might have said "Thus I believe the spiritual reality is different from the soul reality." Not just "Thus".

More like, Thus, this is the message of the Bible, it is up to you to believe it or not. But how can you believe the Bible when what you perceive it has said is incorrect?

And you are still only up to where you came in.

You are still just as incorrect about the Bible as when I came in... (Some do understand.)

When you answer that post of mine I might take you more seriously. It is pointless to argue against asserted beliefs.

It is a belief to think there is actually soul and spirit in the first place never mind that there is a difference between them. Some would say that such beliefs are somewhat egotistical in that anybody who thinks they know anything at all about these matters is getting a bit above himself.

If there is a soul and a spirit and you deny them both then you are perceivably setting your mark way below yourself.

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When we die the body goes back to the earth, the soul goes back to the air and the spirit eventually returns to God (who is spirit).

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