Rexred is using "flood" as a metaphor for the fall of dust from the asteroid impact he's talking about.
Since the reference is to a paper on a crater ON an asteroid, I'm not sure what impact he's talking about...
Quote: The asteroid that hit the earth would not have caused such a problem except that it hit an enormous gypsum deposit. This caused an ash to be deposited in the atmosphere of the earth and "total" earth wide blackout of the sun for months. Yes, this happened long before the Bible's Noah but you could call it a flood... Most all humans died... [ark] Anyone in antiquities who organized workers to dig deep and analyze the ground would have found this "strange" layer everywhere they dug. It is black and covers the earth world wide.
I have no idea what youre talking about here Rex, nor where this even comes from. Do you mean Vesta? ,Vesta is still up there, Vesta didnt crash into the earth. Was that quote from some kind of "what if" story?
There was a collision on Vesta and some feel that there are tektites that made it to earth but Vestas about 200 million miles or more away from us.
Earlier collisions with comets and meteors , had effects that were not floods , but climatological.An ice age is not a flood, in fact its effects are totally opposite. (The ocean levels drop precipitously, because much water gets locked up in glacial ice).
Most all of the big bolide smacks occured in pre hominid times.
farmerman wrote:rex.Sorry, but there is no continuous and contiguous "flood-layer" on the planet. While there may be water laid sediments all over, they are separated from each other by time and tectonics.
Geologists have been studying environments of deposition for years and weve got a pretty good picture of the earths crust and what caused what.
So, whoever gave you that "layer of death" crap is probably someone who is , by oversimplification, trying to make valid an impossible point.
If there was a flood, the sediments would have been laid down at the same time. If you scan great areas of the earth there are places with n o water lain deposits at all, even after our sed record begins about 3.8 billion years ago.
If we extend sedimentary records for great distances for a specific period in geo time, we find that water laid deposits like the Salina basin that extends from Ny state to about Michigan, we have deposits of beach sediments and then there exists a gradual erosion field where the earth was uplifted and was dry land with streams and swamps and mountains , all in the same age period.
The idea of a local flood, in the Caspian has been pretty much documented to have occured in paleolithic times, as well as periglacial flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates. Humans were living along these basin margins and could have given birth to flood legends for their tribal record.
Im not denying that theres probably some truth in the origins of their legends but to invoke a worldwide flood and make it part of a "scientific" record when we know positively that it did not occur , is trying to create a truth built entirely on deception and misinformation.
You should read Simon Winchesters "Map that Changed the World". Its a quick read and gives a sense of history to the development of geologic maps , and how one man unravelled what all the various strata in the English countryside and their map positions mean
FM go back and look at the ground again...
Study the asteroid impact in South America (Peru, I believe)... I did not say it was a water layer I said it was a gypsum layer... and it IS everywhere on the earth and where did I learn about this? On the science channel by your own ilk (people who specialize in asteroid impacts and geologists)... so argue this one with them... I was bringing this up because most life on earth died at this time (according to the scientists)... It is in the genetic records and fossils prove this too.. This was not a religious show but one on asteroid impacts. No religious inferences were made to Noah at all in the show..
THough it accounts for the first major extinction of almost all creatures and humans on the earth. I called it a flood because it was "like" a flood not that water was actually involved... The earth lay in total blackness for months and yes this was a "layer of death"... Only a very few humans survived this (genetics affirm this too) and this was where humans lost their genetic diversity...
I will look up a link and post it... but it was from a cable program I am sure there is something about it on the net too. The scientists on the program said that the asteroid impact alone was not enough to cause a blackout on the earth but considering the asteroid hit of all things a very large gypsum deposit the gypsum burnt and blacked out the sun... This is why there is a thin layer of gypsum deposited all over the earth... It is a black layer unlike any other layer. Scientists are not sure how or where humans survived this global disaster.
The dinosaurs died out in another great extinction about 65 million years ago. Most scientists believe that the extinction was caused by the impact of a small asteroid with Earth. The impact would have thrown so much dust into the atmosphere that the surface would have been dark and cold for months, killing off plants and the animals that fed on them. Many scientists believe a large, buried crater in the Yucatan region of Mexico, called Chicxulub (CHEEK shoo loob), is the place the asteroid struck. Debris from the collision has been found all over the world, and deposits created by large sea waves caused by the impact have been found in several places around the Gulf of Mexico.
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/earth_worldbook.html
The show I saw had humans in the mix and humans were on the earth at the time of the impact... This above may be talking about another asteroid... but it is the same idea...
http://www.timerock.com/timerock/library/fossils/extinctions.htm
Quote:Most scientists believe that the extinction was caused by the impact of a small asteroid with Earth.
No not most, roughly half. The rest of us think that there is enough evidence to show that dinos were already dying out by global tectonics. Chixclub was just a good K/T indicator. The KT horizon is independent of the death of dinosaurs.
You seem to be straying off your point which was that there was a worldwide flood. I say that you are quite wrong about this and , further, Id say that about 99% of geologists agree with me. the remaining 1% are the Creationists and I cannot figger out where their logic comes from.
RexRed wrote: The earth lay in total blackness for months and yes this was a "layer of death"... Only a very few humans survived this (genetics affirm this too) and this was where humans lost their genetic diversity...
RexRed, Did you miss the link I addressed to you on the previous page?
Quote:"There is," he says, "more genetic diversity in any single African village than in the whole world outside Africa." Which proves that the world's entire non-African population must be descended from a relatively small sub-set of individuals: the San people who decided to migrate. There isn't much diversity because there wasn't much genetic material to begin with.
There really was an Adam - somewhere in East Africa
Quote:You seem to be straying off your point which was that there was a worldwide flood. I say that you are quite wrong about this and , further, Id say that about 99% of geologists agree with me. the remaining 1% are the Creationists and I cannot figger out where their logic comes from.
Did you read what I wrote? The word for land in Hebrew, is the same word for earth. The flood would not have to cover the entire earth anyways, back then there was less people.
I agree with you thunder runner. Im just trying to keep our friend rexred from running all over the barnyard.
The problem with a lot of creationists is that they do not adapt their teachings to what is really known for sure about the world. They fear that it will destroy their faith when really it should strengthen it...having a faith that coincides with scientific knowledge, though I admit that science still cannot explain everything in the bible, for obvious reasons, such as the resurection of Jesus.
thunder_runner32 wrote:...admit that science still cannot explain everything in the bible, for obvious reasons, such as the resurection of Jesus.
If it happened, it probably happened outside of science, not in accordance with it. Presumably, if God made the rules of science, he can violate them at will. I don't actually believe it happened, but if it did, that is probably the nature of the thing.
I wish all those who are devout Creationists had the same wisdom that you possess thunder- runner. It isnt so much the argument that its Creation or evolution. Its the patent dismissal of the surrounding sciences that makes the full debate often fruitless.
I see it daily, people who go about their lives with their faith, and take nothing else into consideration. These people are often very defensive about a sad, skin-deep faith.
Farmerman recently mentioned the bill in Pennsylvania state legislature to allow school boards to include the teaching of intelligent design theory in science classes.
The Associated Press reports that the Pennsylvania ACLU has issued a statement that the bill's endorsement of intelligent design conflicts with Pennsylvania's science standards.
EVOLVE or DIE.......as written on Lily Tomlins shirt.When i photographed her.
farmerman wrote:Quote:Most scientists believe that the extinction was caused by the impact of a small asteroid with Earth.
No not most, roughly half. The rest of us think that there is enough evidence to show that dinos were already dying out by global tectonics. Chixclub was just a good K/T indicator. The KT horizon is independent of the death of dinosaurs.
You seem to be straying off your point which was that there was a worldwide flood. I say that you are quite wrong about this and , further, Id say that about 99% of geologists agree with me. the remaining 1% are the Creationists and I cannot figger out where their logic comes from.
Didn't the sea levels rise dramatically after the ice age?
wandeljw. I know about the ACLU statement , I helped in the original hearings for the state ed standards in science. This was always a big craw sticking point with those of us that spent over a year of pro bono time in positions , hearings etc. All to be chucked out because of some deedle dee in York County who wants to run for County office under the GOP "get with God"ticket.
I still think the damn case is gonna go on.
REX RED-The seas rose dramatically after the Ice AGes. Since they dropped by 350 feet consequent TO the Ice Ages, their post glacial rise , brought em back to where they were originally. Also, the land , which was geotechnically compressed by the weight of 2 miles of ice, rebounded aboutanother 100+ ft and is still rebounding today. So, No correlation with melting glaciers and worldwide flood. There may have been some paleo camps out on the continental shelves .They had to kmove as the Ice melted , but the rate of rise was less than a fraction of a foot per year (more like a f per decade). I dont think that anyone would have been trapped anymore than people who own summer homes on the barrier islands today.
Robert Matthews Science Correspondent, The Telegraph - London 11-4-1
Scientists have found the first evidence that a devastating meteor impact in the Middle East might have triggered the mysterious collapse of civilisations more than 4,000 years ago.
Studies of satellite images of southern Iraq have revealed a two-mile- wide circular depression which scientists say bears all the hallmarks of an impact crater. If confirmed, it would point to the Middle East being struck by a meteor with the violence equivalent to hundreds of nuclear bombs.
Today's crater lies on what would have been shallow sea 4,000 years ago, and any impact would have caused devastating fires and flooding.
The catastrophic effect of these could explain the mystery of why so many early cultures went into sudden decline around 2300 BC.
They include the demise of the Akkad culture of central Iraq, with its mysterious semi-mythological emperor Sargon; the end of the fifth dynasty of Egypt's Old Kingdom, following the building of the Great Pyramids and the sudden disappearance of hundreds of early settlements in the Holy Land.
Until now, archaeologists have put forward a host of separate explanations for these events, from local wars to environmental changes. Recently, some astronomers have suggested that meteor impacts could explain such historical mysteries.
The crater's faint outline was found by Dr Sharad Master, a geologist at the University of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, on satellite images of the Al 'Amarah region, about 10 miles north-west of the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates and home of the Marsh Arabs.
"It was a purely accidental discovery," Dr Master told The Telegraph last week. "I was reading a magazine article about the canal-building projects of Saddam Hussein, and there was a photograph showing lots of formations - one of which was very, very circular."
Detailed analysis of other satellite images taken since the mid-1980s showed that for many years the crater contained a small lake.
The draining of the region, as part of Saddam's campaign against the Marsh Arabs, has since caused the lake to recede, revealing a ring- like ridge inside the larger bowl-like depression - a classic feature of meteor impact craters.
The crater also appears to be, in geological terms, very recent. Dr Master said: "The sediments in this region are very young, so whatever caused the crater-like structure, it must have happened within the past 6,000 years."
Reporting his finding in the latest issue of the journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, Dr Master suggests that a recent meteor impact is the most plausible explanation for the structure.
A survey of the crater itself could reveal tell-tale melted rock. "If we could find fragments of impact glass, we could date them using radioactive dating techniques," he said.
A date of around 2300 BC for the impact may also cast new light on the legend of Gilgamesh, dating from the same period. The legend talks of "the Seven Judges of Hell", who raised their torches, lighting the land with flame, and a storm that turned day into night, "smashed the land like a cup", and flooded the area.
The discovery of the crater has sparked great interest among scientists.
Dr Benny Peiser, who lectures on the effects of meteor impacts at John Moores University, Liverpool, said it was one of the most significant discoveries in recent years and would corroborate research he and others have done.
He said that craters recently found in Argentina date from around the same period - suggesting that the Earth may have been hit by a shower of large meteors at about the same time.
Why does the Middle East always have to
be hit with nuclear bombs?
Circular arguments lead to whatever we presuppose.
Does the conditioning lead to the assumption, lead
to the belief and then the actual fact, proven by the
prejudice that Judeo-Christian simply-for-
everybody's-protection, and the right thing,
the stability of mankind,
truly make it right?
Or is it for the political oil?
Gilgamesh thought it would be a good time to
renew our souls. And so we started again and found
that everyone wanted the same richness of barren sand.
A meteor can save the day when
there is nothing left to sell.
Today's crater lies on what would have been . . .
our family.
Ooo! Ooo! I know this one!
Because they are all evil and wear funny clothes and they deserve to be bombed !
What?.....I missed the point....?.....damn....
