RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:45 pm
timberlandko wrote:
spendius wrote:
timber wrote-

Quote:
Again, what you offer is not argument, it is ignorance, fear, and superstition. Once more, demonstrate, objectively and in academically sound, forensically valid manner that religious faith, particularly the specific religious faith you appear to endorse, be differentiable from superstition.


I have done that for you timber. To do so I gave a short version, as best I could, of Kingsley Davis's explanation. (Berkeley). It's in Human Society published by The Macmillan Company of New York. It's clear cut.

I submit, spendi, no such condition pertains. I assert your claim per that regard is erroneous, in that, in the cited work, Davis (on pages 509 & 510 of the copy I have to hand) unambiguously describes the "rationalistic approach" to religion and matters religious as a major fallacy, explicitly declaring "religious behavior is not rational". By way of expansion, I refer you to the 1959 Address Delivered by Davis (note: 16 page .pdf document), "The Myth of Functional Analysis As A Special Method In Sociology and Anthropology", wherein Davis at length and in detail shreds any basis for the notion you've presented.


Religion is philosophy (Look it up in the dictionary.). Religion is not always truth. Thus, only part of religion is theoretically "superstition" the other part is inadvertently "truth". Not much in this world is absolute. Most truth is for the most part untested or unproven. This is due to obstruction by religion/philosophy and some "science".

Philosophy (and religion) is man's wisdom, truth is God's wisdom.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:47 pm
timberlandko wrote:
RexRed wrote:
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Rex...all that training, yet no rationality. Maybe you should get a reality check and pick up a nice hobby like golf.


Science has so many holes as it is and rationality is a legitimate process for creating more holes.

I submit, Rex, that what is "full of holes" is not science but rather is your flawed perception of science.


It is not the mass of what science knows but the mass that is unknown that eclipses what is known. But most people need to step back to see this void in science.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:48 pm
RR would monkey (sic) around with golf as well. He'd be certain that the ball would be better hit if he held onto the head of the club and hit the ball with the handle. He'd tout that the physics are much more ideal and that professional golfers have holes in their playing technique.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 02:54 pm
I submit, Rex, that your latest offerings are but sophistry framed as straw man argument; the matter at proximate discussion is that religion is not rational, not that it is or is not philosophy, nor that it may or may not consist of, contain or impart any "Truth." I submit further that the "Truth Concept" forwarded in your posts is wholly subjective, strictly a matter of particular personal interpretation, definition, and preference, entirely without external reference or validation, conditional only upon itself.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:26 pm
timber wrote-

Quote:
I submit, spendi, no such condition pertains. I assert your claim per that regard is erroneous, in that, in the cited work, Davis (on pages 509 & 510 of the copy I have to hand) unambiguously describes the "rationalistic approach" to religion and matters religious as a major fallacy, explicitly declaring "religious behavior is not rational". By way of expansion, I refer you to this 1959 Address Delivered by Davis (note: 16 page .pdf document), "The Myth of Functional Analysis As A Special Method In Sociology and Anthropology", wherein Davis at length and in detail shreds any basis for the notion you've presented.


We were talking about the difference between the two words,religion and superstition.

I never said that the beliefs of religious people are rational. If they were rational they wouldn't be beliefs. The distinction Davis draws between the two has been quite common for many a long year. Davis didn't think it up.

I have Human Society in my hand. And I regularly dip into it. I gave a version of it for you a while back. If it didn't work for you, and it was objective, you'll have to go on thinking the two words mean the same thing and then you can use the sneer with any newbies who come in with integrity. I can't do anything about failure to appreciate objective differences between two words or phrases.

Some people can't, or won't, see the objective difference between intelligent design and creationism. It's no big deal.

If Davis did come to think religious belief and superstition are the same thing it could only be because he came to think that religious people were acting selfishly in the last analysis. But he would still have to address the group practice of religious rituals as opposed to the private practice of superstitions.

And though many religious people may be acting selfishly not all are and so the door is back open on there being a difference in meaning.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:30 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
RR would monkey (sic) around with golf as well. He'd be certain that the ball would be better hit if he held onto the head of the club and hit the ball with the handle. He'd tout that the physics are much more ideal and that professional golfers have holes in their playing technique.


Golfers do have holes in their playing technique too...
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:39 pm
Oh, boy, ya picked up on my double entrendre and then had to explain it to others. You take the cake.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:44 pm
Religion by definition being "philosophy" (applied human knowledge) is by nature prone to superstition. There is nothing really absolute in human behavior, there can be an element of verifiably accurate assumptions too amidst pure illusory imagination.

So the premise is that not all religion is false so not all religion is superstition. It doesn't have to be solely the scientific elements of religion that are the only true reality.

2Co 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:46 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Oh, boy, ya picked up on my double entrendre and then had to explain it to others. You take the cake.


Cake has lots of little tiny holes...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:51 pm
The Bible is the only thing here admitting to be "holy"... But the holes are in our brain... like teeth. The roots go into our brain... And the eye tooth cannot see.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:54 pm
Very Happy Isn't it a bit early in the day to be drinking?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:57 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Very Happy Isn't it a bit early in the day to be drinking?

Haven't been drinking but that last one was stretched a bit far...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:05 pm
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:15 pm
2000 year old words still have meaning today.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:36 pm
spendius wrote:
We were talking about the difference between the two words,religion and superstition.
Nope, there is no in context difference between, JuJuism, Witchcraft, Fairy Tales, Mayanism, Channeling, Taro Card Reading, Fortune Telling, and Christianity. They can all be viewed as either religions and/or superstitions.
spendius wrote:
I never said that the beliefs of religious people are rational. If they were rational they wouldn't be beliefs.
Nope, I believe I exist, and most would consider that axiomatic and rational, nonetheless it's a belief.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:38 pm
Quote:
2000 year old words still have meaning today.


Some do, but then some of them are pretty dumb.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:47 pm
xingu wrote:
Quote:
2000 year old words still have meaning today.


Some do, but then some of them are pretty dumb.


Some may not make sense at first.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 04:48 pm
An antiquated book that has spawned more than a few movies, most of them mediocre films. Could it be the material isn't really that good? I watched "Samsom and Delilah" again a few months ago and it was howlingly awful. The production values were there, they had decent actors but that script! Then we had "The Bible" where John Huston basically but the last nail in the coffin on Biblical epics. If this is such great material and it had John Huston at the helm, why was the movie so boring? The answer: they are stories that fascinate children -- unfortunately, of all ages.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 05:04 pm
Chum wrote-

Quote:
Nope, I believe I exist, and most would consider that axiomatic and rational, nonetheless it's a belief.


You're in the **** Chum.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 05:05 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
An antiquated book that has spawned more than a few movies, most of them mediocre films. Could it be the material isn't really that good? I watched "Samsom and Delilah" again a few months ago and it was howlingly awful. The production values were there, they had decent actors but that script! Then we had "The Bible" where John Huston basically but the last nail in the coffin on Biblical epics. If this is such great material and it had John Huston at the helm, why was the movie so boring? The answer: they are stories that fascinate children -- unfortunately, of all ages.


Would the story have been better if antagonists had not consistently through history tried to pull one over on God?
0 Replies
 
 

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