RexRed wrote:Timber, one can look to the flaws and the errors or we can look to the imperceptibility of the continuum that has remained "on" and powered up for eternity.
Nonsense. Space and time, as we know them, have relevance only in context of that which has proceeded from the emergence of the singularity. Our frame of reference is wholly constrained by the Big Bang and that which proceeded from it. "Eternity" and "Infinity" are purely human constructs, abstracts convenient for calculations and ponderings, but without real meaning. Before, apart from, beyond, or other than The Big Bang and the universe which resulted therefrom are simply meaningless within our frame of reference. We have at least at present no means of knowing anything other than that within our frame of reference, the frame of reference that came into being with the emergence of the singularity.
Quote: We can compare building the universe with a hammer and nails but is that really apt at conveying the depth of how absolutely wondrous our universe is?
More nonsense. Simply because we've yet much to learn about the universe, its workings, its origins, and its destiny is no reason to ascribe magic to any component thereof. A Creator God concept is no answer, it is an avoidance of the question, a shield against fear of the unknown.
Quote:You belittle the human species and you do not even know what we will evolve into..
You present both a straw man and a red herring. In what way do I belittle the human species? And what does the possible further evolution of the human species have to do with anything here at discussion?
Quote:You act as if some slime in a puddle of mud on some distant planet is going to rival the human being...
There is no reason to conclude that is beyond the realm of possibility, and every reason to assume there would be a very high probability of such a situation, given that the physics and chemistry we know appear to be universal constants. Whether or not we are alone in the universe, it is absurd to conclude, based on the available evidence, that we must be, or even that we might be; frankly, the converse is the only logical assumption. Given the properties of the electromagnetic spectrum, the vast distances between stars within their galaxies, the even more hugely vast distances between the galaxies themselves, and humankind's ever-so-recent emergence, it is little wonder we have discovered no co-inhabitants of the universe; the Old World, for instance, was ignorant of The New World untill little more than half a millenia ago, a few hundred years compared to humankind's 100,000-Year +/- history, and the existence of galaxies themselves was unknown just a few generations ago. We have much to learn, much to discover, and only very recently havce we begun to acquire the tools needed to permit exploration beyond our immediate environs. Long before Columbus was the boat, and then the rudder, and then the sail, and then the compass. By comparison, we've just figured out how to build frail, primitive boats, and have yet even to conceptualize such things as rudders, sails, and compasses.
Quote:I don't know how your slander on God and creation (the dumbing down) is really helpful?
Given that "God", particularly the God of the Abrahamic Mythopaeia central to your proposition is an unestablished, undefined, incorporeal concept, devoid of empirical evidence of existance, subject to multiply contradictory interpretations and characterizations, and that creation as you use the term is likewise an absolutely afoundational concept, burdened by enormous and ever mounting hard, empirical evidence to the contrary, your assertions there are but meaningless apart from their betrayal of the ignorance, fear, and superstitition foundational to your philosophy. I slander no one, I ridicule the ludicrous. Exposing the ludicrous for what it is is helpful in the extreme toward the end of eliminating the ignorance, fear, and superstition behind the ludicrousness.
Quote:I find in this forum we may never agree
On that we can agree; such is the very point and purpose of forums such as this.
Quote: but science trying to study God is like a rock trying to study itself...
Now there's a classic of meaninglessness - biblical in proportion.
Quote:There is such learning and knowledge just beyond the wall of science...
No, science has no walls; beyond science there is but conjecture, unwarranted assumption, fear, ignorance, and superstition. Religion, and in particular religion predicate upon the Abrahamic Mythopaeia, is nothing more than the quarry from which is mined the blocks used to build the artificial walls of the intellectual fortresses the fearful build to shield themselves from the uncertainties, discoveries, and accomplishments of reality. What is helpful to the human condition, and to the furtherance of the cause of its advancement, is every effort to batter down those walls with real knowledge and understanding. Your "God" is a dead end, a halt to inquiry, an impenetrable, inexplicable wall, whereas science is all about inquiry, all about going beyond the walls to discover what really is out there, as opposed to imagining, fearing, and denying what might be.
