Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:04 pm
Hi real life,
how do you reconcile the fact that many believe God is responsible for everything, are they wrong and you're right?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
We don't need no god to know that!


Well, you asked!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:14 pm
Chumly wrote:
Hi real life,
how do you reconcile the fact that many believe God is responsible for everything, are they wrong and you're right?


Yes.

Obviously both cannot be correct. God cannot at the same time be responsible for everything and not responsible for everything.

One view or the other is wrong.

Some folks are afraid to say that an idea is incorrect, but two opposing ideas cannot be simutaneously correct.

Both logic and scripture show us that God is not responsible for our actions.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:27 pm
Was god so lonely, he had to create this earth with animals that started from the starting gate with so many imperfections? Knowing full well that the majority would not meet his demands? Is he that lonely?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 10:35 pm
real life wrote:
Both logic and scripture show us that God is not responsible for our actions.
1) That's rather a stretch even for you to try and use the words logic and scripture congruently!

2) Also it's rather the height of hubris to infer that your interpretation of what you consider to be the word of god vis-a-vis "scripture" must be correct and therefore all others who don't agree with your view that "God is not responsible for our actions" must by default wrong.

3) Since you have singled handedly put the centuries old unresolved debate (as argued by the best philosophical minds) to rest about the existence of free will, merely by saying "God is not responsible for our actions" perhaps you would be kind enough to share with me how you came to this weighty declaration.

I am going to get a cookie and a cup of tea (it was preordained).
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Apr, 2006 11:32 pm
RL is into the philosophical mode of extrapolating his own feelings about a subject he know little about. I'd say, go out and get a life but that would be superfluous. I hope church was satisfying today.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 12:35 am
My comments are in red.

Chumly wrote:
real life wrote:
Both logic and scripture show us that God is not responsible for our actions.
1) That's rather a stretch even for you to try and use the words logic and scripture congruently!

Scripture is God's wisdom not man's... Why do you have such a problem understanding that, or that God's wisdom may exceed your own and even that collectively of science?

2) Also it's rather the height of hubris to infer that your interpretation of what you consider to be the word of god vis-a-vis "scripture" must be correct and therefore all others who don't agree with your view that "God is not responsible for our actions" must by default wrong.

It stands to reason that someone who actively reads and "studies" a book is going to be more proficient at gleaning it's meaning then someone who is just a blind follower of what "sincere" others say the book says... (I guess that IS the TEST of the "logic of the scriptures".)

3) Since you have singled handedly put the centuries old unresolved debate (as argued by the best philosophical minds) to rest about the existence of free will, merely by saying "God is not responsible for our actions" perhaps you would be kind enough to share with me how you came to this weighty declaration.

The best philosophical minds? Haha What about the mind of God? Are we to just brush that away out of arrogance and self worship? I will take it a step further than RL.. GOD DOES NOT POSSESS... It is not just free will but only the devil possesses the minds of people. People have to put on the mind of God, by their own free will. The word of God is the will of God...

Ro 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


I am going to get a cookie and a cup of tea (it was preordained).

Watch that cookie doesn't bite you back. Twisted Evil Laughing
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 12:48 am
Rex, is it god's plan that you are not congruently on topic?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 12:55 am
Chumly wrote:
Rex, is it god's plan that you are not congruently on topic?


You asked about free will and I said God does not possess. How could that be any less on topic?
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 12:56 am
These threads always ending up going off on great tangents, so it doesn't really make a difference.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 01:01 am
RexRed wrote:
How could that be any less on topic?
Your indomitable style suggests you could outdo yourself (I guess).
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:37 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Was god so lonely, he had to create this earth with animals that started from the starting gate with so many imperfections? Knowing full well that the majority would not meet his demands? Is he that lonely?
Back to the omniscience debate, I see.

Why is it impossible for some to understand that, if God exists, he certainly must have the ability to selectively apply his powers, including his power of foreknowledge?

If the proposition is illogical, someone please tell me why.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:47 am
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How could that be any less on topic?
Your indomitable style suggests you could outdo yourself (I guess).


It must have been his sermon at church on Sunday.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:51 am
I just had a thought. Maybe someday humans will use the internet to fight aliens...
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:52 am
Then I would suggest you run for cover. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 09:55 am
Lightwizard wrote:
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How could that be any less on topic?
Your indomitable style suggests you could outdo yourself (I guess).


It must have been his sermon at church on Sunday.


That is a sad worm on a hook... Smile

If you are fishing for if I attend church, I live in a church it is my body and it holds a spiritual temple within. So I am always in church or the church is always in me.

My every breath is a prayer and my thoughts are angels in heaven.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 10:00 am
neologist wrote:
Why is it impossible for some to understand that, if God exists, he certainly must have the ability to selectively apply his powers, including his power of foreknowledge?

If the proposition is illogical, someone please tell me why.


If your god were omniscient--all knowing--he/she/it would know these things by definition. There would be no opportunity to "selectively" apply such a "power." That's pretty low by your standards, Boss.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 10:01 am
Was the "sad worm on a hook" tasty? I understand now -- you are a sect within yourself having nothing to do with any particular denomination.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 10:08 am
The notion of any of the gods seletively applying their "power" is interesting in view that the Christian God in the Bible, if it is the word of God, endorses some behavior that is anathema for me, like slavery. Would someone really read this Medieval, dated, conflicted, episodic piece of mythological literature and tell me if it ends up being for the simple minded who have difficulty discerning right from wrong?

We have the ultimate free will -- we are guided by internal thoughts and I wish that all of us were free of character flaws and always did the right thing. Those who claim they always do by preaching are not fooling any of us here.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 May, 2006 10:14 am
Setanta wrote:
neologist wrote:
Why is it impossible for some to understand that, if God exists, he certainly must have the ability to selectively apply his powers, including his power of foreknowledge?

If the proposition is illogical, someone please tell me why.


If your god were omniscient--all knowing--he/she/it would know these things by definition. There would be no opportunity to "selectively" apply such a "power." That's pretty low by your standards, Boss.
I do not define God as omniscient precisely because the definition implies a limitation.

I fail to see how one defined as all powerful could be limited by word manipulation.
0 Replies
 
 

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