Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 11:14 am
Laughing Be careful what you volunteer for, or did everyone else step backwards? We were writing about McCain, not you. Have another cup of coffee. And quit trying to play a victim.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 11:24 am
LOL
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 12:11 pm
That's what science doesn't want you to do -- jump to conclusions. It is what religion wants you do to -- make that leap to the conclusion that Genesis is a real story. It was probably from tales handed down by Cain's wife -- you know, the one that came out of nowhere or there was some incest relations going on the Bible was too embarassed to admit (as if it's not full of all sorts of sordid goings on). That's why the Vatican has such a huge collection of porno -- in preperation for an upcoming illustrated edition of the Bible.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 12:20 pm
lightwizard wrote:

If evolution was a theory, it could not play an important role in medicine.

Incorrect.
Gravity, another popular theory, plays an important roll in the science of physics. I think you hold a common misunderstanding as to what 'theory' means in a scientific context.
This misconception is usually grasped onto and forwarded by the ID set, in order to marginalize evolution as being just a theory.
A theory as defined by science:
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
..Which is precisely what evolutionary theory is.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 12:35 pm
That's not the definition that most clerics would want understood -- they want to bind it down to number two: abstract thought : SPECULATION.

You really didn't take that sentence seriously -- it was bait. But I can never guess who will fall for it.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 01:37 pm
The November 2004 issue of National Geographic Magazine has an interesting article on Darwin. The excerpt below summarizes the ideas and evidence in "Origin of the Species":

Quote:
The gist of the concept is that small, random, heritable differences among individuals result in survival and reproduction?-success for some, death without offspring for others?-and that this natural culling leads to significant changes in shape, size, strength, armament, color, biochemistry, and behavior among the descendants. Excess population growth drives the competitive struggle. Because less successful competitors produce fewer surviving offspring, the useless or negative variations tend to disappear, whereas the useful variations tend to be perpetuated and gradually magnified throughout a population.

So much for one part of the evolutionary process, known as anagenesis, during which a single species is transformed. But there's also a second part, known as speciation. Genetic changes sometimes accumulate within an isolated segment of a species, but not throughout the whole, as that isolated population adapts to its local conditions. Gradually it goes its own way, seizing a new ecological niche. At a certain point it becomes irreversibly distinct?-that is, so different that its members can't interbreed with the rest. Two species now exist where formerly there was one. Darwin called that splitting-and-specializing phenomenon the "principle of divergence." It was an important part of his theory, explaining the overall diversity of life as well as the adaptation of individual species.

The evidence, as he presented it, mostly fell within four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology. Biogeography is the study of the geographical distribution of living creatures?-that is, which species inhabit which parts of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms, as revealed in the fossil record. Embryology examines the revealing stages of development (echoing earlier stages of evolutionary history) that embryos pass through before birth or hatching; at a stretch, embryology also concerns the immature forms of animals that metamorphose, such as the larvae of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design. Darwin devoted sizable sections of The Origin of Species to these categories.

Biogeography, for instance, offered a great pageant of peculiar facts and patterns. Anyone who considers the biogeographical data, Darwin wrote, must be struck by the mysterious clustering pattern among what he called "closely allied" species?-that is, similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan. Such closely allied species tend to be found on the same continent (several species of zebras in Africa) or within the same group of oceanic islands (dozens of species of honeycreepers in Hawaii, 13 species of Galápagos finch), despite their species-by-species preferences for different habitats, food sources, or conditions of climate. Adjacent areas of South America, Darwin noted, are occupied by two similar species of large, flightless birds (the rheas, Rhea americana and Pterocnemia pennata), not by ostriches as in Africa or emus as in Australia. South America also has agoutis and viscachas (small rodents) in terrestrial habitats, plus coypus and capybaras in the wetlands, not?-as Darwin wrote?-hares and rabbits in terrestrial habitats or beavers and muskrats in the wetlands. During his own youthful visit to the Galápagos, aboard the survey ship Beagle, Darwin himself had discovered three very similar forms of mockingbird, each on a different island.

Why should "closely allied" species inhabit neighboring patches of habitat? And why should similar habitat on different continents be occupied by species that aren't so closely allied? "We see in these facts some deep organic bond, prevailing throughout space and time," Darwin wrote. "This bond, on my theory, is simply inheritance." Similar species occur nearby in space because they have descended from common ancestors.

Paleontology reveals a similar clustering pattern in the dimension of time. The vertical column of geologic strata, laid down by sedimentary processes over the eons, lightly peppered with fossils, represents a tangible record showing which species lived when. Less ancient layers of rock lie atop more ancient ones (except where geologic forces have tipped or shuffled them), and likewise with the animal and plant fossils that the strata contain. What Darwin noticed about this record is that closely allied species tend to be found adjacent to one another in successive strata. One species endures for millions of years and then makes its last appearance in, say, the middle Eocene epoch; just above, a similar but not identical species replaces it. In North America, for example, a vaguely horselike creature known as Hyracotherium was succeeded by Orohippus, then Epihippus, then Mesohippus, which in turn were succeeded by a variety of horsey American critters. Some of them even galloped across the Bering land bridge into Asia, then onward to Europe and Africa. By five million years ago they had nearly all disappeared, leaving behind Dinohippus, which was succeeded by Equus, the modern genus of horse. Not all these fossil links had been unearthed in Darwin's day, but he captured the essence of the matter anyway. Again, were such sequences just coincidental? No, Darwin argued. Closely allied species succeed one another in time, as well as living nearby in space, because they're related through evolutionary descent.

Embryology too involved patterns that couldn't be explained by coincidence. Why does the embryo of a mammal pass through stages resembling stages of the embryo of a reptile? Why is one of the larval forms of a barnacle, before metamorphosis, so similar to the larval form of a shrimp? Why do the larvae of moths, flies, and beetles resemble one another more than any of them resemble their respective adults? Because, Darwin wrote, "the embryo is the animal in its less modified state" and that state "reveals the structure of its progenitor."

Morphology, his fourth category of evidence, was the "very soul" of natural history, according to Darwin. Even today it's on display in the layout and organization of any zoo. Here are the monkeys, there are the big cats, and in that building are the alligators and crocodiles. Birds in the aviary, fish in the aquarium. Living creatures can be easily sorted into a hierarchy of categories?-not just species but genera, families, orders, whole kingdoms?-based on which anatomical characters they share and which they don't.

All vertebrate animals have backbones. Among vertebrates, birds have feathers, whereas reptiles have scales. Mammals have fur and mammary glands, not feathers or scales. Among mammals, some have pouches in which they nurse their tiny young. Among these species, the marsupials, some have huge rear legs and strong tails by which they go hopping across miles of arid outback; we call them kangaroos. Bring in modern microscopic and molecular evidence, and you can trace the similarities still further back. All plants and fungi, as well as animals, have nuclei within their cells. All living organisms contain DNA and RNA (except some viruses with RNA only), two related forms of information-coding molecules.

Such a pattern of tiered resemblances?-groups of similar species nested within broader groupings, and all descending from a single source?-isn't naturally present among other collections of items. You won't find anything equivalent if you try to categorize rocks, or musical instruments, or jewelry. Why not? Because rock types and styles of jewelry don't reflect unbroken descent from common ancestors. Biological diversity does. The number of shared characteristics between any one species and another indicates how recently those two species have diverged from a shared lineage.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 02:17 pm
Excellent
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 02:18 pm
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/carlin.htm

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
I've begun worshipping the Sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the Sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.
-- George Carlin, Brain Droppings

Here's another question I've been pondering -- what is all this **** about angels? Have you heard this? Three out of four people belive in angels. Are you f**king stupid? Has everybody lost their mind? You know what I think it is? I think it's a massive, collective, psychotic chemical flashback for all the drugs smoked, swallowed, shot, and obsorbed rectally by all Americans from 1960 to 1990. Thirty years of street drugs will get you some f**king angels, my friend!
-- George Carlin (attributed: source unknown) Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 02:27 pm
Sun worship is as old as religion. Smile
Good as any, I suppose. At least we see benefit from it every day of our life.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 03:20 pm
Akhenaton would be proud that George Carlin has returned his religion to Earth.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 03:34 pm
We wouldn't have a problem with multiple gods. And if some a-hole said "Hey, the sun just told me we have to attack those people over there. We would know he was nuts.

Of coarse then there would be some yahoo that would decide to worship Niburu. Then the Niburu people would try to Attack "Those damn Sun infidels"

http://www.crystalinks.com/nibiru.html
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 03:42 pm
As there is no sun in Canada we worship beaver.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 03:44 pm
Beavers? INFIDEL!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 03:47 pm
Where did religion come from? Our ancient ancestors were in fear of nature and they felt they had to worship whatever force was causing storms, the rising of the sun, the moon, the stars, fires, death -- you name it. They hoped it would appease an angry "God" from singling them out for destruction. They eventually went so far as to sacrifice animals and other humans to appease the figment of their fearful imagination. There's various reasons for people to have evolved and still need a "big Daddy" up in space to help them through life. Fear of randomness is the chief culprit.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 04:00 pm
Lash wrote:
Good God. Look over there! We're selling A2K thongs!


LOL! I just saw the A2K thong!!! OMG too funny!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 04:29 pm
Is this a banner ad selling the thongs? Craven and Jespah, and the staff, were having a lot of fun with us for Bacon Fool's Day, now something to stretch over our privates to advertise A2K. Now who's going to read that!
Embarrassed Surprised Laughing
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 04:31 pm
Beavers, huh. That one will be gnawing at me for a week.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 04:38 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Is this a banner ad selling the thongs? Craven and Jespah, and the staff, were having a lot of fun with us for Bacon Fool's Day, now something to stretch over our privates to advertise A2K. Now who's going to read that!
Embarrassed Surprised Laughing


Very Happy
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 08:30 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:

Interesting article. If the dinosaur bone in this article were really 70 million years old, how come there's soft tissue inside?

Oh never mind. It's on a 'creationist' website, MSNBC.

Quote:
Scientists recover T. rex soft tissue

70-million-year-old fossil yields preserved blood vessels

Updated: 9:58 p.m. ET March 28, 2005

WASHINGTON - A 70-million-year-old Tyrannosaurus rex fossil dug out of a hunk of sandstone has yielded soft tissue, including blood vessels and perhaps even whole cells, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday.

Paleontologists forced to break the creature's massive thighbone to get it on a helicopter found not a solid piece of fossilized bone, but instead something looking a bit less like a rock.

When they got it into a lab and chemically removed the hard minerals, they found what looked like blood vessels, bone cells and perhaps even blood cells.............


see full story at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683



http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/04/dino-blood_redu.html
In media interviews Jack Horner, Schweitzer's coauthor and former professor, has been much more cautious. He appeared on a radio program, "On Point" broadcast by National Public Radio were Tom Ashcroft interviewed him along with molecular taphonomist Derek Briggs of Yale University, and science writer Carl Zimmer. Then he repeatedly said that they in fact have no idea what the recovered "tissues" are made of, or actually represent. Schweitzer did not appear on the program, but this could mean that there are the familiar disagreements that can occur between coauthors and particularly professors and former students. For example, when Ashcroft asked
"If it's soft tissue, what else would it be other than biological?
Horner replied, "Well that's a good question, but I don't think we go in with the assumption that it is {biological} until we can do our analyses. (approx. minute 30 of the interview)" He also said, "It would be nice to know what this stuff is made of … if there are proteins present, is it biological?" And, "We're not looking for DNA, we are trying to determine what this stuff is and why it is flexible.

Since jumping to conclusions is not good exercise, I'll wait to see what they do find.

P


Apparently, soft tissue has been found in several more instances.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325100541.htm
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2006 08:38 pm
lightwizard wrote:

You really didn't take that sentence seriously -- it was bait. But I can never guess who will fall for it.

If by 'take it seriously' you mean 'assumed that you were serious' then yes, I did. You gave no indication you may be kidding.
I only commented because I dislike disinformation, and that particular bit is a common theistic rhetorical ploy to downplay the value of evolutionary theory.
The word 'theory' when applied to 'evolutionary theory' is NOT theory of the conjecture kind(which would, at best, be catergorized as 'hypothesis' in scientific terminology), regardless what most clerics would believe/evangelize.

Never know who might be reading this, and take your statement at face value.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Evolution? How?
  3. » Page 413
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 03/11/2026 at 04:36:27