Evolution? How?

We, as human beings, put things into perspective from the viewpoint of a human being. We look for black and white and discount anything that may be a shade of gray.

We don't use our imaginations enough and look beyond what we perceive to be absolute. i.e. How do we know what Adam looked like? Could he have looked like a monkey? God created man in his image....We do not know what God looks like....<yet>.

I am in no way straying from my believes, but we have to think beyond Michelangelo's depiction of God. We know that man and, indeed, most of the living species have changed (evolved) over time. God did not make a mold that could not be changed.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

But my point is, MA....that you are not respecting my "take on things" that religion should be wiped from the Earth.

And I don't expect you to do so.

My argument is not that you should respect my take...but rather that it is disingenuous to suppose any of us truly can respect other "beliefs."

In fact, in many cases...I would think a heck of a lot more of you for characterizing some "beliefs" as garbage...than if you "respected" them.

The Hitler adherent "belief" is a case in point. The "belief" that the proper way to to honor a god is to hijack an airplane and fly it into an occupied business building is another.

Ok, Frank, IMO you are talking words here and the technical definitions of words, not the meaning or context of the discussion.

I guess I just don't understand why it is so important to you that these words have to adhere to the strictest of meanings? I am more than positive you understand what I am talking about and yet you point out a word that may mean one thing to you and another to me.

Respecting something does not mean you have to take it on. It does not mean that you have to agree with it. The respect I show to you and what you have taken on is hopefully shown through my not using negativity in my posts to you. So, why is it so important to you that my beliefs should be called guesses and my respect be called something else?

0 Replies

Intrepid,

Can I ask you a question? (Oops! Just did!) Have you ever pictured in your mind what God does look like? It's odd, but I have never been able to do that.

0 Replies

real life , in one of his broad sweeping revisionist statements has said

Quote:

The "Jesus never existed" argument is so far fetched, it is amazing that some still attempt it.

What I said was that there is no strong (and compelling IMO) evidence that Jesus even existed. Now, if youd please quit trying to turn phrases around in a typical fashion that you have adopted as your only method of debate, I d be so pleased.

Historiographic writings by many scholars are still trying to get a handle by some sort of evidence other than writings , most of which were authored at least 50 years after his reported crucifixion and "resurrection"

Im of no strong opinion either way but Id like to draw upon the data base that suggests that the Character of Jesus, (whose very name has many forms ) may or may not be a historical fact.
No ros, Im not making a parallel with a fossil record, because a fossil record cannot be denied by evidence. Its a fact. Completeness of the record is like "irreducible complexity", it is whatever the viewer can interpret from the record.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

why would someone rather accept being evolved from a monkey (or anything else for that matter) than believe that they were created by a loving God?

Because we don't have a choice of what we would "rather" accept or not. The evidence for evolution is unambiguous and overwhelming. Even if we wanted to believe it didn't happen, we would not be able to deny our own understanding of the evidence which shows it happened.

You should also realize that for most people the fact that we evolved, and that everything evolved doesn't in any way conflict with the spiritual possibility of a deity of some type. It's only the literal interpretation of the Bible which is in conflict with natural evidence, not the basic premise of divinity.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

But, it is up to each of us to curtail our anger (which I haven't done myself at times ) and not to use angry sounding words in the exchange.

I find that anger doesn't support my positions very well, so I try to avoid it. But I try not to shy away from expressing my view strongly when I feel that it's important. Sometimes my view of things may be unpleasant for others to hear, but that doesn't mean I'm attacking "them", only any idea (allbeit and idea they hold dear). Ultimately in a situation like that, I feel it's the responsibility of the person who holds the idea dear, to not allign themselves so closely with the idea that they personalize it and treat any attack on it, like an attack on themselves.

If you think about it, you don't really want to make any idea the core value of your personal worth, because any idea may be wrong. If you allign youself with it too closely, you will find that you begin serving it, rather than it serving you.

0 Replies

rosborne979 wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
why would someone rather accept being evolved from a monkey (or anything else for that matter) than believe that they were created by a loving God?

Because we don't have a choice of what we would "rather" accept or not. The evidence for evolution is unambiguous and overwhelming. Even if we wanted to believe it didn't happen, we would not be able to deny our own understanding of the evidence which shows it happened.

You should also realize that for most people the fact that we evolved, and that everything evolved doesn't in any way conflict with the spiritual possibility of a deity of some type. It's only the literal interpretation of the Bible which is in conflict with natural evidence, not the basic premise of divinity.

Understood. But, I feel the major difference here is that evolutionists are relying upon the word of man and creationists are relying on the word of God. Man lies, God does not. I am not saying that evolution is a lie. I am saying why should I put my trust in men that I don't know and who can obviously make anything appear anyway they want it to appear?

Examples: Lee Harvey Oswalkd killed President John F. Kennedy? - Evidence then showed he did. But now, who knows?

That is just one example. Many have been convicted by evidence (circumstantial and forensic) that have since been found to be innocent based upon the standards of evidence of today.

God does not change His word. Man changes his word constantly.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
why would someone rather accept being evolved from a monkey (or anything else for that matter) than believe that they were created by a loving God?

Because we don't have a choice of what we would "rather" accept or not. The evidence for evolution is unambiguous and overwhelming. Even if we wanted to believe it didn't happen, we would not be able to deny our own understanding of the evidence which shows it happened.

You should also realize that for most people the fact that we evolved, and that everything evolved doesn't in any way conflict with the spiritual possibility of a deity of some type. It's only the literal interpretation of the Bible which is in conflict with natural evidence, not the basic premise of divinity.

Understood. But, I feel the major difference here is that evolutionists are relying upon the word of man and creationists are relying on the word of God.

C'mon!

Creationists are relying on a book written by superstitious ancient Hebrews thousands of years ago.

Every indication is that they have absolutely no idea if any god influenced the people who wrote this book.

This assertion is out of line. Pure guesswork.

Quote:

Man lies, God does not.

Man...meaning humanity...also guesses. And every indication is that you are guessing that there is a god...and guessing that the god does not lie. All based on that book.

Quote:

God does not change His word. Man changes his word constantly.

More guesswork.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Understood. But, I feel the major difference here is that evolutionists are relying upon the word of man and creationists are relying on the word of God. Man lies, God does not.

And you are assuming that God exists, something we all *know* that you can not know.

At least we admit that we are making an assumption: Naturalism. All we're saying is that within the realm of science, evolution is an obvious and well supported explanation for the things we see around us.

Momma Angel wrote:

I am not saying that evolution is a lie. I am saying why should I put my trust in men that I don't know and who can obviously make anything appear anyway they want it to appear?

I put my trust in things I understand. I trust myself to be able to judge the validity of the information I'm hearing and seeing.

I also recognize that I'm evaluating everything from within the framework of science. This is a choice I make.

You have made a choice to evaluate reality from outside of science. You have allowed yourself to entertain options of supernatural source. This is not an option for me because I consider it irrational, and I don't choose to be irrational.

You would probably call my choice uninspired.

I have often wondered why people make this most basic of assumptions; to believe that the world is guided by supernatural forces, or to assume that everything is natural.

Momma Angel wrote:

God does not change His word. Man changes his word constantly.

Man learns and understands. God may not even exist.

It's ok to choose your own assumptions, but you should at least be aware that they *are* assumptions.

0 Replies

Frank and Ros,

You say toe-maa-toe, I say toe-mah-toe. They are still the same fruit.

0 Replies

except when its mistaken as a vegetable

0 Replies

MA has resorted to fruit pronunciations. LOL

0 Replies

Steve (as41oo) Wrote:

Quote:

except when its mistaken as a vegetable

Exactly! But I have never mistaken it for a vegetable! I've always known it was a fruit! Laughing

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

except when its mistaken as a vegetable

Make no mistake. It is in fact a vegetable, as are all fruits.

0 Replies

neologist wrote:

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
except when its mistaken as a vegetable
Make no mistake. It is in fact a vegetable, as are all fruits.

Neologist,

Uh oh, C.I. is going to be really confused now!

0 Replies

rosborne979 wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
God does not change His word. Man changes his word constantly.

Man learns and understands. God may not even exist.

It's ok to choose your own assumptions, but you should at least be aware that they *are* assumptions.

(Damn, I wish I had put it that way!)

You get an A+ for this one, Ros.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

But my point is, MA....that you are not respecting my "take on things" that religion should be wiped from the Earth.

And I don't expect you to do so.

Those who wish the demise of religion should revisit this argument which reveals the source of the attack: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50801&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Intrepid,

Can I ask you a question? (Oops! Just did!) Have you ever pictured in your mind what God does look like? It's odd, but I have never been able to do that.

No, I haven't. Just as I have not tried to picture what anyone on this board looks like, or anyone that I speak to on the telephone. I would be making blind assumptions as to what God or anyone looked like since I do not have a frame of reference to go by. Having said that, I know that God exists. In what form? I have no idea.

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

MA has resorted to fruit pronunciations. LOL

And this contributes to the discussion, how?

0 Replies

Intrepid wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Intrepid,

Can I ask you a question? (Oops! Just did!) Have you ever pictured in your mind what God does look like? It's odd, but I have never been able to do that.

No, I haven't. Just as I have not tried to picture what anyone on this board looks like, or anyone that I speak to on the telephone. I would be making blind assumptions as to what God or anyone looked like since I do not have a frame of reference to go by. Having said that, I know that God exists.

You do, do you?

How do you know?

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know