real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:58 am
Setanta wrote:
My intentional ridicule of your argument from creation (which is, after all, what you have consistently tried to argue throughout, although you often have shown a lack of courage in admitting as much) was that which you are not prepared to argue.

The more i think about your idiotic reference to The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson, the more amused and pleased i become. In the dénoument of Clemen's novel, Wilson shows himself to be the most intelligent and forensically clever man in the courtroom. Therefore, you latest childish attempt to insult is actually complimentary. I would much rather be compared to Wilson than to say, oh . . . "real" life in terms of forensic skills. I rather suspect that you used the name without a clue, and i suspect you've never read the novel--otherwise, how to explain you silly use of it?


"Seta"nta,

Your suspicions are unfounded. It's a favorite of mine and I've read it numerous times. Perhaps your question could be answered if you reviewed it.

BTW-- I didn't say you were like Pudd'nhead (sorry to pop your bubble), but that he had something to say regarding your style of argumentation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 07:39 am
real life wrote:
BTW-- I didn't say you were like Pudd'nhead (sorry to pop your bubble), but that he had something to say regarding your style of argumentation.


That is patently a lie. What you wrote was: "It's a defense mechanism from the Pudd'nhead Wilson school of argumentation."

I'll just go back and quote again to preserve the evidence, in case you try your nasty little editing trick again.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 07:40 am
real life wrote:
It's a defense mechanism from the Pudd'nhead Wilson school of argumentation.


There we are, preserved from any attempt on your part to change the playing field with the edit function.

Edit: Time and date stamp: Posted: 28/8/2005, 10:39 pm Post: 1539701.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 11:00 am
Setanta wrote:
Come on, Boss, he was workin' for the Pope, he got the straight skinny from The Man himself . . .


heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .
Was he really working for the Pope? Or, did he have his own agenda? Rhetorical question, of course; but there are those who believe he did.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 11:02 am
Whether or not, the obvious inference is that he had access to insider information . . .
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 11:19 am
Setanta wrote:
real life wrote:
It's a defense mechanism from the Pudd'nhead Wilson school of argumentation.


There we are, preserved from any attempt on your part to change the playing field with the edit function.

Edit: Time and date stamp: Posted: 28/8/2005, 10:39 pm Post: 1539701.
Oh my goodness. You are hilarious today!!

Yep that's my quote. And what he SAID regarding your style..... well you'll have to read it for yourself but if someone says something or gives instruction or enlightenment on a subject or teaches a particular truism.....well it's all the better if you read it, but you probably won't until you calm down. Oh, how funny!

And to think you went to all that trouble because you simply couldn't provide a rational response to the post I made regarding the supposed evolutionary time table. Just some ridiculous imaginary thing you came up with about God being Caucasian. Oh, my side hurts. Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 11:24 am
Well, i am glad to hear that you are in pain. As i've already pointed out, you grossly misrepresent Mr. Clemen's fictional character. But that is part and parcel of your style, which here has been to grossly misrepresent the core thesis of a theory of evolution. You have assiduously avoided, however, any representation of the creator you allege, and you avoid acknowledging what you have implied many, many times, especially with your feeble attempts to "prove" a world-wide flood. That is that you are an adherent of revealed truth. But you dont' want to discuss it, because you are incapable of sustaining the argument.

Which, of course, would earn your the merited contempt of Mr. Wilson.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 11:38 am
Quote:
The words "genus" "species" and so forth are subjective as well, only representing someone's idea of what seems to them to go together based on selected characteristics.

The words genus and species have assigned qualities of classification , all based upon the singular condition of reproductive isolation and further genetic and morphological differences.These concepts have long established pedigrees, enabling workers in the various fields of biology to communicate Do you have any biology in your education?
What I got from you was a typical Creationist response to someone who questions your belief core . I asked for real life's definition of type and what I got back was a "so;s yer mother" answer. If you feel uncomfortable or untrained, please rush off and find some web site that explains it for you. Ill wait. (At least till tomorrow AM, after which Im checking out for a few days)
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 12:13 pm
Setanta wrote:
Well, i am glad to hear that you are in pain. As i've already pointed out, you grossly misrepresent Mr. Clemen's fictional character. But that is part and parcel of your style, which here has been to grossly misrepresent the core thesis of a theory of evolution. You have assiduously avoided, however, any representation of the creator you allege, and you avoid acknowledging what you have implied many, many times, especially with your feeble attempts to "prove" a world-wide flood. That is that you are an adherent of revealed truth. But you dont' want to discuss it, because you are incapable of sustaining the argument.

Which, of course, would earn your the merited contempt of Mr. Wilson.
I am always glad to listen to you try to defend the core thesis of evolution. Just don't be surprised that I don't buy into it.

I thought that was the purpose of a thread called Evolution? How?

Aren't folks supposed to state how they think Evolution did (or did not) take place? Or is there only free speech and dissent allowed for the DIDs and not for the DID NOTs ?

Let's start at the beginning. You are most likely an adherent of the Big Bang theory, in some form. Where did the original matter and energy come from? They must be accounted for somehow. What's your explanation?

Fast Forward to ancient earth. How did simple chemicals arrange themselves by blind chance into complex functioning (or at least able to function when the cell came together) structures and from there into living cells? (Which brings up an interesting side question: Did the component structures of the cell i.e mitchondria , etc only start functioning when they found themselves in a cell? Or did they start functioning before that, and why?)

Only after answering these questions can you even START to posit whether such a thing as evolution took place or not. You, I think, are a reasonable person therefore you can see why I have my doubts.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 12:28 pm
Another typical strawman. No one here prevents you from discussing any topic. I've already stated that it is completely reasonable to assert that chemicals in clays reacted in a predictable manner to form the long chains form which proteins are made. FM has pointed out that two amino acids have been found in extraterrstrial material. The evidence is very strong that the chemicals from which proteins arise are common, and commonly form.

You can assume all you want about to what i do or don't adhere, that does not make it so. I consider that there is very good evidence for a so-called "Big Bang." That does not mean that i assert it as truth. The absence of an explanation for something is no evidence for your god fairy tale. If you posit that a deity created the universe, then i ask you who created the deity? Got an answer? The basic questions you pose do not make you seem reasonable at all to me. Your basic thesis, never stated, always demonstrated, rests upon revealed truth and a literal acceptance of bible stories.

Only after providing reasonable support for contentions about creation and world wide floods, and all of the other biblical stories, can you even start to posit that such a thing as evolution could not have taken place.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 01:24 pm
Setanta wrote:

You can assume all you want about to what i do or don't adhere, that does not make it so. I consider that there is very good evidence for a so-called "Big Bang." That does not mean that i assert it as truth. The absence of an explanation for something is no evidence for your god fairy tale. If you posit that a deity created the universe, then i ask you who created the deity? Got an answer?


This is just the response I was looking for. It is always where this conversation goes.

The answer is obvious, as you know. I believe in God who was eternally pre-existent.

The Big Bang is usually described as an event that is the result of various interactions of matter and energy. Where did the original matter and energy come from? Two choices are possible. They either were created or they were not.

If they were not created, are we to postulate eternally pre-existent matter as the 'building blocks' of the Big Bang?

If so, there seems to be basically the same position regarding two different entities. But mine is considered 'religious' and the other is considered 'scientific'? How so?

Again you can see why I question the 'scientific' status quo, especially those who have a tendency (yourself you excepted above when you stated you do not necessarily assert it as truth) to term such things as the Big Bang as 'settled fact.'
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 03:17 pm
Just the response for which i had hoped. Were your deity eternally existant, said deity becomes logically unnecessary. The universe can just as well be eternally existant. And it is certainly not axiomatic that those who pursue science, either with the interest of the layman, or as a career, customarily assert anything to be settled fact. The point of the scientific method is to arrive at the best explanation consistent with the data amassed to date.

Which puts your god thesis on shakey ground. To date, after thousands of years of bald assertion, the existence of such a deity has not been supported by a single datum. Someone as reasonable as yourself should be able to understand why someone else, me for example, would therefore find theism irrelevant. Unless and until theists produce some plausibility in their assertions, the question of whether or not there is a deity will be meaningless to me. Therefore, the insertion of a deity into any cosmological explanation appears to me a non-sequitur, and just plain silly.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 03:59 pm
real life wrote:
The Big Bang is usually described as an event that is the result of various interactions of matter and energy.


Incorrect.

real life wrote:
Where did the original matter and energy come from? Two choices are possible. They either were created or they were not.


Please correct the original assumption, and then make your deductions.
0 Replies
 
djbt
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 04:01 pm
real life wrote:
Let's start at the beginning. You are most likely an adherent of the Big Bang theory, in some form. Where did the original matter and energy come from? They must be accounted for somehow. What's your explanation?

I think the science and mathematics forum would be better equiped to help you with this one. It has nothing to do with evolution.

real life wrote:
Fast Forward to ancient earth. How did simple chemicals arrange themselves by blind chance into complex functioning (or at least able to function when the cell came together) structures

By 'complex functioning', do you mean self-replicating? There are, of course, many hypotheses concerning this. Perhaps you could set up an abiogenesis thread, and we could discuss each theory in turn?

real life wrote:
Only after answering these questions can you even START to posit whether such a thing as evolution took place or not.

Why? That's a bit like saying you have to detail every pre-Roman civilization before you can START to posit that Rome existed.

The historical evidence that supports evolution in no way requires an explanation of the origin of the universe, or the process by which abiogenesis occurred, to be considered proof of the occurence of evolution. The historical evidence stands alone.

Presumably, though, since you are of the opinion that, historically, evolution did not occur, you must have reviewed all the evidence that has been sufficient to convince the vast majority of the world's biologists, palaeontologists, etc., and judged that it is all either faked, or misinterpreted.

I think we can only progress with this discussion by taking this one example at a time. Perhaps we could start with this:

Farmerman wrote:
The research of Ed Drescher from the Devonian of the the hills of Heiner in the Appalachians and the Devonian of Canada is rather compeling for the transition of osteicthes to amphibians. Lots of key skeletal intermediates showing evidence that the bony fishes of a specific family actually developed walking limbs while a fish, then , within a 10 million year period , fossils of amphibians with similar dentition and eight finger limbs like the ancestral fish had developed, and these wre true amphibians who retained fish characteristics. So many features remained between the bony fish and the amphibians that it reminds one of the 21 or so common features between late Jurassic dromaeosaurs and early bird like reptiles and then reptile like birds (like archeopteryx)

Do you think the evidence Ed Drescher has put forward was faked, or do you think it is a misinterpretation to regard it as evidence for evolution (as an historical fact, I think we should leave the question of evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection for the moment)?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 05:10 pm
One of the problems with our line of reasoning is that our understanding of reality is limited by what we are able to observe within the constructs of space and time. We are aware of the likelihood of other dimensions, if you wish to call them dimensions, but are unable to articulate their properties, much less function within their laws.

We understand that Jehovah, whose name means 'He who causes to become' is the author of all physical and moral law. So, when we trace cause and effect back to some primordial big bang, who are we to assume that any thing existed before such an event?

It may very well be that Jehovah has either created or fabricated space and time for the simple purpose of our being able to experience what we call reality. And, if such is the case, it is the height of arrogance on our part to complain as if we were pots questioning the wisdom of the potter.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 05:41 pm
neologist wrote:
We understand that Jehovah, whose name means 'He who causes to become' is the author of all physical and moral law.


Guess who's back
Back again
Shady's back
Tell a friend . . .

Now everyone report
To the dance floor
To the dance floor
Now everyone report to the dance floor
Alright Stop . . .
Pajama time


Hold it right there, Buster. What you mean we, white man? You got a theological mouse in yer pocket? Have the courtesy not to "know" things on my behalf, 'K?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:21 pm
Setanta wrote:
neologist wrote:
We understand that Jehovah, whose name means 'He who causes to become' is the author of all physical and moral law.


Guess who's back
Back again
Shady's back
Tell a friend . . .

Now everyone report
To the dance floor
To the dance floor
Now everyone report to the dance floor
Alright Stop . . .
Pajama time


Hold it right there, Buster. What you mean we, white man? You got a theological mouse in yer pocket? Have the courtesy not to "know" things on my behalf, 'K?
Oh, sorry; should have specified 'I' or a smaller group of 'we'. Clever call to the dance, though. Smile
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:37 pm
I thought you might enjoy that . . . and i got to slam you for your theology in the same post . . . ain't life grand?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:57 pm
What are fiends for?Laughing
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:58 pm
Er, friends.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Evolution? How?
  3. » Page 155
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 10/01/2024 at 07:42:01