real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 07:50 pm
Setanta wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
I thought I read somewhere where fish got legs and became lizards etc. Must be some Wooly-headed evolutionist thinking on that one.


Now you're trying to peddle the same delusive crap that "real" life habitually retails. The point is the amount of time, and the incremental change of descent with modification, as opposed to an idiotic statement that one animal suddenly became a completely different animal. A theory of evolution does not posit that a fish one day appeared with legs fully developed, eagerly anticipating his promotion to reptile.


Set"ant"a,

I think we all understand that you believe evolution happened over a long period. Your use of the words "suddenly" and "one day" tend to mischaracterize my post.

Whether you think one creature turned into another different creature over a day, 10,000 years, or 100 million years the point is simply that you do not have sufficient transitional forms to support it, and you do not have an observable mechanism to bring creatures from one type to another (only to change within their own type).

Wide variety is observable within nearly every type of creature but it does not bring them anywhere close to becoming another type of creature.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 07:53 pm
None of which authorizes a silly and self-serving contention that therefore some Caucasian-lookin' old white dude on a cloud pointed his finger down and "BOOM! ! !"--suddenly there was species diversity in all its wonderous diversity.

"real" life . . .

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 07:55 pm
Setanta wrote:
None of which authorizes a silly and self-serving contention that therefore some Caucasian-lookin' old white dude on a cloud pointed his finger down and "BOOM! ! !"--suddenly there was species diversity in all its wonderous diversity.

"real" life . . .

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .


Are you basing all of that on a Michelanglo painting???
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 07:56 pm
Come on, Boss, he was workin' for the Pope, he got the straight skinny from The Man himself . . .


heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:02 pm
The Pope? No wonder.....

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:04 pm
Checkmate

And what is that suppose to mean. That if science says they don't know something that makes you right?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:11 pm
xingu wrote:
Checkmate

And what is that suppose to mean. That if science says they don't know something that makes you right?


Obviously, you are not a chess player. It means that you have hit an impass and nobody is right at this junction in the road. Neither can be proved. I see that everything is right or wrong with you and there is not middle ground.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:13 pm
I am a chess player. Checkmate is not an impass. It is a victory. A stalemate is an impass; neither wins or loses.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:19 pm
I am not the chess player. Stalemate will do. ;-)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:25 pm
real life
Quote:
Whether you think one creature turned into another different creature over a day, 10,000 years, or 100 million years the point is simply that you do not have sufficient transitional forms to support it, and you do not have an observable mechanism to bring creatures from one type to another (only to change within their own type).


You are either totally unaware of the literarture or else youput on your blinders and ear plugs and deny its veracity. Im curious, how do you explain the existence of diverse forms of life found in limited ranges on specific continents or islands and nowhere else, and appearing at different geological times? Are we undergoing creation now?

Pretty good leap of faith , when youve got absolutely no evidence to back up anything of which you confess. When's the next expedition to the Ararats?



I dont think that you even understand what you are saying, do you confer "typeness" to a species, a genus? family? Whats the latest stretch of credulity ?
The research of Ed Drescher from the Devonian of the the hills of Heiner in the Appalachians and the Devonian of Canada is rather compeling for the transition of osteicthes to amphibians. Lots of key skeletal intermediates showing evidence that the bony fishes of a specific family actually developed walking limbs while a fish, then , within a 10 million year period , fossils of amphibians with similar dentition and eight finger limbs like the ancestral fish had developed, and these wre true amphibians who retained fish characteristics. So many features remained between the bony fish and the amphibians that it reminds one of the 21 or so common features between late Jurassic dromaeosaurs and early bird like reptiles and then reptile like birds (like archeopteryx)

Your AIG resource sites are purposely keeping you hidden from a lot of the ongoing research, much of which is happening right now and most of which had reached solid results stages in the last 5 years. I dont know what youll say when we have even more transitional forms in a few years. (If your ilk is true to form, theyll claim that with all the new intermediates all we have are evn more gaps but with closer and closer morphological features

Your just ill informed and dont want to take time to read, thats too bad. I like to read the Creationist stuff, Its very informative. Even the obviously incorrect material like the "Creationists View of the Grand Canyon" that your people whined and whined until the US Parks Service included the pamphlet in the Bookstore is worth a read .Imagine, its a pamphlet that attempts to lay aside the garage loads of stratigraphic and structural and paleo work thats been done on the CAnyon by real scientists who only carried into the field a desire to understand the workings of the system in nature. They had no preconceived notion to prove or disprove a Creationist viewpoint. Hows that for hypocrisy on your sides behalf/ .
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:44 pm
FM
Since you have bought up the Grand Canyon; have the creationist ever explained the Great Unconformity? Or do they believe the flood sediment started at the GU?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 08:50 pm
Quote:
Wide variety is observable within nearly every type of creature but it does not bring them anywhere close to becoming another type of creature.
You seem to have no understanding of what determines the name species. Im not surprised,at least your posts are consistant. Now if you could sit still in class and pay some attention, this stuff wouldnt go over your head. A killer whale and a narwhal are the same type to you?
How about a tortoise and a leatherback sea turtle?
Maybe something closer , a big eared bat and a myotis bat
How bout a grizzly bear and a panda?
Do these represent types? to you.


How about a chimapnzee and a male human
Or a male human and a female human/

Can you see where were going?

TYPE is a totally meaningless word in biology or paleo. Its got a "made-up" conotation that is only unique to the Creationists , nobody else.

we can use "type" , but its always modified by a prefix , like phenotype or genotype. Watson, Mayr, Futuyama, Gould, Zubbay, (and many others) have glossaries in their books and I dont reacall ever seeing the word "Type" in reference to any categorie of nomenclature. I feel that you should take time and define the term clearly in its biological context. (You may use Biblical refernces if you wish)
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:16 pm
Yeah what the hell is type? You mean species? I assume so since if you're using words like "type" you probably won't know what genuses and families are in biology, so species is probably what you meant.

I think I posted this link before but I was reading it and it really is an astounding look at different ways that evolution can occur that make it even more practical.
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueID=73&articleID=1028
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:27 pm
I used the word type in a generic sense. The words "genus" "species" and so forth are subjective as well, only representing someone's idea of what seems to them to go together based on selected characteristics. It carries a "made-up" connotation as well.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:28 pm
You're abusing the word connotation there, Bubba.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:39 pm
[quote="S"eta"nta"]
real life wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
I thought I read somewhere where fish got legs and became lizards etc. Must be some Wooly-headed evolutionist thinking on that one.


Now you're trying to peddle the same delusive crap that "real" life habitually retails. The point is the amount of time, and the incremental change of descent with modification, as opposed to an idiotic statement that one animal suddenly became a completely different animal. A theory of evolution does not posit that a fish one day appeared with legs fully developed, eagerly anticipating his promotion to reptile.


Set"ant"a,

I think we all understand that you believe evolution happened over a long period. Your use of the words "suddenly" and "one day" tend to mischaracterize my post.

Whether you think one creature turned into another different creature over a day, 10,000 years, or 100 million years the point is simply that you do not have sufficient transitional forms to support it, and you do not have an observable mechanism to bring creatures from one type to another (only to change within their own type).

Wide variety is observable within nearly every type of creature but it does not bring them anywhere close to becoming another type of creature.


None of which authorizes a silly and self-serving contention that therefore some Caucasian-lookin' old white dude on a cloud pointed his finger down and "BOOM! ! !"--suddenly there was species diversity in all its wonderous diversity.

"real" life . . .

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .

[/quote]

Don't worry folks. He gets like this when he cannot come up with a reply. It's a defense mechanism from the Pudd'nhead Wilson school of argumentation.

Stand back and give him some air. Don't make any sudden movements to startle him. He's not generally considered dangerous.

*soothingly* Look away from the flickering monitor , Setanta. Take a deep breath and close your eyes. Imagine yourself speaking rational things. At least try hard to do so. Have you visited the cafeteria today? Maybe you can go there soon and have something nice to snack on.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 11:01 pm
You'd have to stand on the shoulders of your pathetic mother to reach the toes of an author such as Clemens, so drop the Pudd'nhead Wilson reference--you haven't the skill to justify it's use.

I see that you follow your standard procedure when confronted with something you are not prepared to argue--playground attempts to insult. How predictable.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 04:28 am
Quote:

Say, since we're going to agree on evolution, the Big Bang, all that.... can you tell me where the original matter and energy came from that produced the Big Bang? Surely you must know, you've just been holding back for the right moment, huh?


You contend that since we don't know yet, that god did it. So what is YOUR evidence?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 05:59 am
Setanta wrote:

I see that you follow your standard procedure when confronted with something you are not prepared to argue--playground attempts to insult. How predictable.


I'm sorry, I must have missed it. What were you trying to argue with your giggle?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2005 06:44 am
My intentional ridicule of your argument from creation (which is, after all, what you have consistently tried to argue throughout, although you often have shown a lack of courage in admitting as much) was that which you are not prepared to argue.

The more i think about your idiotic reference to The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson, the more amused and pleased i become. In the dénoument of Clemen's novel, Wilson shows himself to be the most intelligent and forensically clever man in the courtroom. Therefore, you latest childish attempt to insult is actually complimentary. I would much rather be compared to Wilson than to say, oh . . . "real" life in terms of forensic skills. I rather suspect that you used the name without a clue, and i suspect you've never read the novel--otherwise, how to explain you silly use of it?
0 Replies
 
 

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