neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 10:28 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Some people think they belong to the "superior" race, and others think they are god. It doesn't take any imagination to see the dichotomy of the racial bigot and those who think they are supreme planet creature; haughty.
Dichotomy? I see an apparent bifurcation between meaning and intent.
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:41 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Some people think they belong to the "superior" race, and others think they are god. It doesn't take any imagination to see the dichotomy of the racial bigot and those who think they are supreme planet creature; haughty.


No there is no superior or inferior but in Nature itself, you have different hierarchies,dont you?
Mineral,vegetal,animal,human,superhuman(or spiritual) worlds...
each one depend of the other:vegetals from minerals,animals from vegetals,humans from these three and god depend upon all these 5!
Hes the most dependant,because its Him.Hes the Creator of His own Creation and preserve it,protect it!
Likewise in the solar system we can find affinities,special attractions,dependencies among planets...
Ultimatly we all depend of our God the Sun. :wink:
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 11:57 am
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Some people think they belong to the "superior" race, and others think they are god. It doesn't take any imagination to see the dichotomy of the racial bigot and those who think they are supreme planet creature; haughty.


No there is no superior or inferior but in Nature itself, you have different hierarchies,dont you?
Mineral,vegetal,animal,human,superhuman(or spiritual) worlds...
each one depend of the other:vegetals from minerals,animals from vegetals,humans from these three and god depend upon all these 5!
Hes the most dependant,because its Him.Hes the Creator of His own Creation and preserve it,protect it!
Likewise in the solar system we can find affinities,special attractions,dependencies among planets...
Ultimatly we all depend of our God the Sun. :wink:Spell check not used because it would take too long.
And, perhaps a bifurcation between meaning and reality.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2005 10:28 pm
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
Science is as divine as religion.
What is really bad it is the ambition, self gratification,expectation of rewards and celebrity of some individuals in these matters.
The totallity of culture is divine otherwise...



Science is more divine than most religion. Religion is most often philosophy and philosophy is derived from the imaginations of the human mind/heart. Science tends to only concern itself in simple observation of creation. Thus it is often more pure when it is not on the cusp of what is perceived as scientific theory. Science is the discovery and the classification of the observable where religion tries to classify the invisible which is a much more difficult task. Thus religion has more probability to be incorrect and ultimately must lead to an observable outcome if it is to be perceived as "truth".
0 Replies
 
Ray
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 12:16 am
Quote:
I've spent a good deal of time kicking around on Uranus. I must say it has a decidedly therapeutic effect.


It's not pronounced "your anus" isn't it?
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 02:30 am
RexRed wrote:
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
Science is as divine as religion.
What is really bad it is the ambition, self gratification,expectation of rewards and celebrity of some individuals in these matters.
The totallity of culture is divine otherwise...



Science is more divine than most religion. Religion is most often philosophy and philosophy is derived from the imaginations of the human mind/heart. Science tends to only concern itself in simple observation of creation. Thus it is often more pure when it is not on the cusp of what is perceived as scientific theory. Science is the discovery and the classification of the observable where religion tries to classify the invisible which is a much more difficult task. Thus religion has more probability to be incorrect and ultimately must lead to an observable outcome if it is to be perceived as "truth".


Rex,hello

I would not agree with you,in this statement that science is superior to religion or more divine.
Major religeous scriptures and their secret keys have been codified and hidden from the mass of men,and young souls capable of misusing too many power which pours from an uncontrolled knowledge.
Science as practiced now by scientists is nothing less but discovering something that already exists and have been existed since the very beggining of life.
They say they discover new "truths"...I say to those people:Pride and lie!
Truth has not a beggining nor an end!
What really happens in their mind let me assure you is that they discover a new formula better than the previous one when the previous one is not dead in totallity...They discover their own past ignorence!
This is not omniscience nor the right method to aquire it!
Only pure minds and hearts can aquire it.This is called divine wisdom. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 03:59 am
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
Science is as divine as religion.
What is really bad it is the ambition, self gratification,expectation of rewards and celebrity of some individuals in these matters.
The totallity of culture is divine otherwise...


Science is as divine as religion?

If by that you mean that religion isn't divine, then so be it. Religion isn't divine. If God exists (and I'm not sure on the matter), I guess He would be divine, but religion? No. Religion itself can never be divine, only the god at the top of its hierarchy.

Quote:
Rex,hello

I would not agree with you,in this statement that science is superior to religion or more divine.
Major religeous scriptures and their secret keys have been codified and hidden from the mass of men,and young souls capable of misusing too many power which pours from an uncontrolled knowledge.


Actually, no. People only see patterns hidden in the scriptures because human brains are trained to see patterns.

Take this grid, for example,
http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Modules/MC10220/Images/grid.gif

Look at it. Sure, it's not hard to see the obvious pattern there, but if you look long enough you'll start seeing other patterns. Your brain will start grouping things into columns or rows, or you might tend to notice groups of four squares more than others.

It is the same with the religious texts, especially the Hebrew religious texts because of the dualistic nature of their alphabet (the letters being able to stand for numbers).

Quote:
Science as practiced now by scientists is nothing less but discovering something that already exists and have been existed since the very beggining of life.


Yes it is.

Quote:
They say they discover new "truths"...I say to those people:Pride and lie!


No one ever says they discover new truths. They say they have new discoveries, which means, they have discovered something new to the collective knowledge of mankind.

That's why it's called a discovery, because they find it and uncover the mystery behind it.

Quote:
Truth has not a beggining nor an end!
What really happens in their mind let me assure you is that they discover a new formula better than the previous one when the previous one is not dead in totallity...They discover their own past ignorence!
This is not omniscience nor the right method to aquire it!
Only pure minds and hearts can aquire it.This is called divine wisdom. :wink:


Pure minds would be a true scientific mind, one that is open to all suggestions, yet equally sceptical about them. A pure mind would be first one that accepted an idea, then thought about it and tried to prove it correct or false without any bias.

No one seeks to be omniscient. Science is such a vast field that even in something as simple as molecular biology, there are subdivisions and specialisation. No one scientist can know everything about everything in the field of molecular biology. It is impossible.

You say they discover their past ignorance. True.

However, your post seems to me filled with ignorance about science in general and even evolution in general.

In evolution, if something is superior, it will have a unique advantage over the inferior ones. Those that are inferior would thus have more difficulty surviving and would be wiped out.

Hence, thanks to natural selection, there should be no such thing as superior or inferior in nature.

You may argue that that isn't the case and provide the case study of red squirrels and grey squirrels.

Red squirrels were native to the British Isles, but ever since the introduction of the grey squirrel, their numbers have dwindled. They were inferior to the grey squirrel, which was larger and more capable of finding food than its red counterpart.

They were nearly wiped out.

Red squirrels now exist only in areas where the grey squirrels cannot go. Therefore in these areas, it is the red squirrel that is "superior".
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 09:02 am
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
RexRed wrote:
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
Science is as divine as religion.
What is really bad it is the ambition, self gratification,expectation of rewards and celebrity of some individuals in these matters.
The totallity of culture is divine otherwise...



Science is more divine than most religion. Religion is most often philosophy and philosophy is derived from the imaginations of the human mind/heart. Science tends to only concern itself in simple observation of creation. Thus it is often more pure when it is not on the cusp of what is perceived as scientific theory. Science is the discovery and the classification of the observable where religion tries to classify the invisible which is a much more difficult task. Thus religion has more probability to be incorrect and ultimately must lead to an observable outcome if it is to be perceived as "truth".


Rex,hello

I would not agree with you,in this statement that science is superior to religion or more divine.
Major religious scriptures and their secret keys have been codified and hidden from the mass of men,and young souls capable of misusing too many power which pours from an uncontrolled knowledge.
Science as practiced now by scientists is nothing less but discovering something that already exists and have been existed since the very beginning of life.
They say they discover new "truths"...I say to those people:Pride and lie!
Truth has not a beginning nor an end!
What really happens in their mind let me assure you is that they discover a new formula better than the previous one when the previous one is not dead in totallity...They discover their own past ignorence!
This is not omniscience nor the right method to aquire it!
Only pure minds and hearts can aquire it.This is called divine wisdom. :wink:


I find distinction between religion and truth. Religion is not always truth and truth is never religion. Religion is man (human) made, truth is God made... I would say that science is superior to most religion but truth is superior to both science and religion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 09:20 am
The only way to seek truth is through science. You will not find truth in religion, because you must cast logic aside to believe it.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 09:31 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
The only way to seek truth is through science. You will not find truth in religion, because you must cast logic aside to believe it.


And who says logic is truth? I can show you many examples of things that are observable but are simply a mirage.

1Co 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 09:43 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
The only way to seek truth is through science. You will not find truth in religion, because you must cast logic aside to believe it.
Are you equating religion with the knowledge of God? The knowledge of God, whether He exists or not, whether we have responsibility toward Him or not, would be truth, right?
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:06 am
I agree with you Neo...
The totallity of cultures and all knowledges and religions are represented by God,not only on the Earth but on all planets of our system.
There is no question He cannot answer nor anything he doesnt know.
Hes Omniscient-
It is my experience of this great Life in which we momently find a shelter and live...

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 10:27 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Some people think they belong to the "superior" race, and others think they are god. It doesn't take any imagination to see the dichotomy of the racial bigot and those who think they are supreme planet creature; haughty.


Scientists take all of this knowledge that is a result of the creation of God and not the result of scientists looking. They extract God from the equation and inject speculation in it's place. Scientists adopt creation as if it is their own and they are the only ones who can unravel the mysteries of the universe. They divide the world into "classes" the learned and the unlearned. They look at the Christian with distain and division...

The Christian on the other hand looks at all the world as a potential spiritual family. The Christian seeks unity and harmony with God and spiritual realm... They are not inducted into this family because they have a PHD or a long list of professors who endorse them... they are part of this family because of a simple freely given "gift" from God. They do not have to work for this "gift" so it can never be a source of self pride...

Ephesians 4:3
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 02:22 pm
"They extract God from the equation and inject speculation in it's place." Science does not "inject speculation." It observes natural phenomenon and interprets them with all the tools available to man. Religion on the other hand is pure speculation without any basis of proof. Religion is therefore based on "faith."
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 04:44 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"They extract God from the equation and inject speculation in it's place." Science does not "inject speculation." It observes natural phenomenon and interprets them with all the tools available to man. Religion on the other hand is pure speculation without any basis of proof. Religion is therefore based on "faith."


A scientific "theory" in merely "speculation" and there are just as many scientists that oppose one another in the areas of scientific theory as do theists with "religion"...

At least most theists agree that God does exists...

But the physical world only exists to roughly half of the scientific community, the other half believe it exists only half of the time in a multi dimensional quantum state...

...thus scientists cannot even agree if matter truly does exist...

Evolution can only happen if it exists...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 04:50 pm
If you really think science is mere speculation, you may live in ignorance as a choice. Entirely your choice.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 06:17 pm
Quote:
Evolution can only happen if it exists...


As far as science is concerned evolution does happen and it does exist. The question is how does it work.

Don't mistake our ignorance of how something works to mean it doesn't exist. We don't know the mechanics of cancer; does that mean no one dies from it?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:21 pm
cancer = hitler Smile
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2005 11:53 pm
OH @%##***! Not another thread doomed by Godwin's law. Just when I was having fun. Mad Laughing
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jul, 2005 03:03 am
The solution of understanding lies in a synthesis of understandings:
Religeous,scientific,artistic,cultural,historical,philosophical...and so on...
Is any one ready here for such effort?
0 Replies
 
 

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