neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2005 08:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rex, Another flaw in the bible; contradictions of one verse in another verse - of the same book.
Not really. The context applies to the opening of the covenant to gentiles and all others. I've been away for a few hours and the posts have really piled up. It will take me a while now to catch up. I hope in the meantime I don't throw up. There are some colossal blunders of logic here.

edited for clarity
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 08:19 am
xingu wrote:
So your telling me all those Egyptians killed by God's plagues really killed themselves?

And all the Caanites in Jericho and Ai killed themselves?

Right?

That has got to be one of the sorriest and most pathetic excuses I've ever heard.

Usually the cop-out answer is;
"It is not for us to judge God."
or
"God works in mysterious ways. It is not for us to know his ways."

But to say they all committed suicide; like it was their fault?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE!


You would rather believe the books that tell the story from man's perspective rather than God's... That is the reason why God put two stories in the Bible, to see who would believe him over man...

You seem to choose the latter. This tells much about your character.

Shakespeare said the same thing... "death will have death"... People are killed by their own evil... Where do you think Shakespeare got this idea?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 08:25 am
xingu wrote:
Quote:
Don't believe preposterous things said about God...

In other words, don't pay attention to the Bible.


Yes, don't just believe the Bible, but seek the answers out and find out if the surface meaning is what the Bible is really trying to say.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 08:42 am
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
His slaughter of the Egyptians and Caanites to begin with.

There is much more.



Well lets start with these one at a time... thx

His slaughter of the Egyptians and Canaanites...


You will notice there are two versions of the same story of the slaughter of the Egyptians and Canaanites... One is written from a human perspective and the other is written from God's perspective... The story written from God's perspective says the Egyptians and Canaanites "fell upon their own swords"...
Scriptural references to the two stories please.

BTW, since all who died without knowing God are entitled to a resurrection , does it make any difference how they died?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 08:59 am
You remind me of a SDA I used to know. She and I discussed religion a lot. She believed in the literal truth of the Bible and was a Creationist.

I asked her once how she can account for the dinosaur fossils. They were obviously older than 6,000 years, the age of the earth, by her beliefs. They were the bones of real animals.

Her answer was just like yours; God put the bones in the earth to test our faith. If we believed they were real and questioned the Bible we didn't have faith and God would send us to hell. If we believed they were fake and accepted the Bible as literal truth we would reside with God in a city of gold, silver and pearls.

So, according to you and her, life is a one time deal in which God throws out phony and bogus signs to test our faith. I guess life is like a big game to God; see if you fool them and if you do then reject them.

So God writes two stories, according to you, and if we choose the wrong one it's………what?

Hellfire and damnation?

Rejection and being cast off into a void?

Kill our souls?

By the way can you give the verses that said the inhabitants of Jericho and Ai killed themselves and not slain by Joshua and his soldiers.

Can you show me the verse that explains how the plagues sent by God to kill the children of Egypt was suicide?

Quote:
BTW, since all who died without knowing God are entitled to a resurrection , does it make any difference how they died?


But they did know of the Jewish God. They were neighbors.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:12 am
xingu wrote:
You remind me of a SDA I used to know. She and I discussed religion a lot. She believed in the literal truth of the Bible and was a Creationist.

I asked her once how she can account for the dinosaur fossils. They were obviously older than 6,000 years, the age of the earth, by her beliefs. They were the bones of real animals.

Her answer was just like yours; God put the bones in the earth to test our faith. If we believed they were real and questioned the Bible we didn't have faith and God would send us to hell. If we believed they were fake and accepted the Bible as literal truth we would reside with God in a city of gold, silver and pearls.

So, according to you and her, life is a one time deal in which God throws out phony and bogus signs to test our faith. I guess life is like a big game to God; see if you fool them and if you do then reject them.

So God writes two stories, according to you, and if we choose the wrong one it's………what?

Hellfire and damnation?

Rejection and being cast off into a void?

Kill our souls?

By the way can you give the verses that said the inhabitants of Jericho and Ai killed themselves and not slain by Joshua and his soldiers.

Can you show me the verse that explains how the plagues sent by God to kill the children of Egypt was suicide?

Quote:
BTW, since all who died without knowing God are entitled to a resurrection , does it make any difference how they died?


But they did know of the Jewish God. They were neighbors.
Who are you talking to? Don't ask me to show you the same verses I have asked rex to provide. I've already dealt with the conquest of Canaan in an earlier post, but will restate if necessary.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:19 am
I'm talking to you and Rex. I want Rex to show me the verses also.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:23 am
xingu, I hope you are enjoying this, because you are not going to get a 'straight answer' on anything. Your previous post is symptomatic of how these people think; they will protect creationism until hell freezes over.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:26 am
xingu wrote:
I'm talking to you and Rex. I want Rex to show me the verses also.
Rex may have his shorts wedged a little too tight trying to find scriptural references, but not as tight as your shorts if you accepted your friend's explanation of dinosaur bones as if it were some sort of christian doctrine.

Switch hitters are valuable in baseball, but not when it comes to the truth.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:30 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
xingu, I hope you are enjoying this, because you are not going to get a 'straight answer' on anything. Your previous post is symptomatic of how these people think; they will protect creationism until hell freezes over.

Staying with baseball analogies here: just because you whiffed on my fastball does not mean I threw a curve.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:39 am
Repeating bible verses is not even close to a logical argument. If you must derive all your answers from a book that is full of contradictions and errors, any debate is useless.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:47 am
If the bible is full of contradictions and errors then I am more than a fool; I am the very definition of evil.

If you haven't understood my explanations, you are a naughty boy!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 09:54 am
neo, How do you interpret the following two sentences? These are established laws of the king where you live.

1. Killing is not allowed.

2. You must kill those who fails to follow my instruction.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:01 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
neo, How do you interpret the following two sentences? These are established laws of the king where you live.

1. Killing is not allowed.

2. You must kill those who fails to follow my instruction.


1. You must not murder. Sorry if your translation does not make this distinction.


2. The wage sin pays is death. (There were also crimes punishable by death. Do you need a list?)
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:05 am
neologist wrote:
RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
His slaughter of the Egyptians and Caanites to begin with.

There is much more.



Well lets start with these one at a time... thx

His slaughter of the Egyptians and Canaanites...


You will notice there are two versions of the same story of the slaughter of the Egyptians and Canaanites... One is written from a human perspective and the other is written from God's perspective... The story written from God's perspective says the Egyptians and Canaanites "fell upon their own swords"...
Scriptural references to the two stories please.

BTW, since all who died without knowing God are entitled to a resurrection , does it make any difference how they died?


Just because people are resurrected does not mean they go to heaven. Judgement comes after resurrection.

My recollection is foggy but this is how I remember it...

Of the three books which are each spit in two parts, king chronicles and judges one entire book (I forget which one) is written from God's perspective and one from a human perspective. Two of the books (again I forget which ones) run over the exact same stories but are written from each a different perspective, God/human. So in one story it will say they killed ten thousand men in the name of God and in the other book about the same story it will say, the evil invaders were slain by their own hand or consumed by their own lust for power...

Next please Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:20 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Repeating bible verses is not even close to a logical argument. If you must derive all your answers from a book that is full of contradictions and errors, any debate is useless.


Bible verses are words too... they have an equal weight and meaning comparatively to other words. It is not the exact words, but the thought that the words provoke. Thoughts are logical structures in the mind that build into a temple where we pray to the sprit of our own creation.

Smile
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:21 am
You really need to look these up, rex. Most of those resurrected will live on earth.

The entire bible was written by men to educate us as to God's perspective.

True, some of the enemies of Israel, (many, in fact)
were killed by their own hands. The story of Gideon is one example.

But, I would really like to know which passages have given you your idea.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:45 am
neologist wrote:
You really need to look these up, rex. Most of those resurrected will live on earth.

The entire bible was written by men to educate us as to God's perspective.

True, some of the enemies of Israel, (many, in fact)
were killed by their own hands. The story of Gideon is one example.

But, I would really like to know which passages have given you your idea.


Here are some of the things I have just found in looking back through the scriptures.

1 Kings 2:32
And the LORD shall return his blood upon his own head, who fell upon two men more righteous and better than he, and slew them with the sword,

1 Kings 19:10
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

2 Kings 19:7
Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

1 Chronicles 10:4
Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.


Many of the worlds greatest despots have died by their own hand...
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:51 am
RexRed wrote:
neologist wrote:
You really need to look these up, rex. Most of those resurrected will live on earth.

The entire bible was written by men to educate us as to God's perspective.

True, some of the enemies of Israel, (many, in fact)
were killed by their own hands. The story of Gideon is one example.

But, I would really like to know which passages have given you your idea.


Here are some of the things I have just found in looking back through the scriptures.

1 Kings 2:32
And the LORD shall return his blood upon his own head, who fell upon two men more righteous and better than he, and slew them with the sword,

1 Kings 19:10
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

2 Kings 19:7
Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

1 Chronicles 10:4
Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.


Many of the worlds greatest despots have died by their own hand...



You are taking quotes out of context; quotes that have nothing to do with Joshua and the slaughter,or murder, of innocent children.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:54 am
Quote, "2. The wage sin pays is death. (There were also crimes punishable by death. Do you need a list?)"

No, I do not need a "list." But try to interpret the following verse from the bible.

From the bible: "Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." Exodus 17:13"

Please explain this contradiction. 1) Thou shalt not kill. 2) God approves the killing of Amalekites.
0 Replies
 
 

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