Evolution? How?

cicerone imposter wrote:

neo, You have missed the whole point of my post. It's not a matter of "fill the earth." It's a matter of 1) if no sin, no death, 2) if no death, animal population grows exponentially, 3) do you understand logistics? I think not.

Sorry, I was in such a hurry to post before the battery quit.

When Adam and Eve were told they would die if they disobeyed, they obviously knew what death meant. Animals were never afforded everlasting life. Only humans were given the understanding of 'time indefinite'.

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1:28 The New English Bible

"God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that move on the earth."

No where does it say replenish nor give any hint of previous life on earth.

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RexRed wrote:

neologist wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Do you understand logic? Well, give this one a try. Say that Adam and Eve were the first perfect, unsinful, couple, and they bore children. Their children bore more children without any deaths on this planet. Do you have any understanding of logistics? Without sin, humans continued to reproduce. What's the problem with this picture? Oh, my gosh! That's true with all animals on this planet too! The first male and female of their specieis must have sinned too~!
In Starbux. Battery running low. If you were told to fill my latte cup, would you fillit to overflowing or just until it was full[/I? Adam and Eve were told to fill the earth.[/quote]

Actually one must read the Bible again...

God did not tell Adam and Eve to fill the earth he told them, to "re-fill" the earth...

Ge 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Comment:
You cannot replenish the earth if it has not been filled once before...
?Where did this come from?

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xingu wrote:

1:28 The New English Bible

"God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that move on the earth."

No where does it say replenish nor give any hint of previous life on earth.

Thanks, xingu!

http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/thumbup.gif

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farmerman wrote:

and ifyou look in Genesis you will see that Adam and Eve were created
1same time
2 then Adam first

The Bible cant even agree with itself let alone be hailed as a "textbook"

FM give God a fair shake there are reasons that are not always apparent on first or second reading... Many people spend a lifetime trying to figure out God but when the answers are found the fellowship with God is sweet... Smile

hint: one may be relating to the human spirit and the other may be the human body... When you see God taking Adam's rib it makes me thing that, a man has two chromosomes XY but a woman has only one XX. And that male and female evolved beside each other. I do not see it as a first or last thing but all as a together thing, an inseparable part of each other's flesh. The ribs cover the heart... I think it is hard in this case not to push the figurative too far. Where it is simply trying to indicate a soul mate type of coexistence...

Later in the Epistles of the Bible the stereotypes of male and female are torn completely down...

The Epistles say there is neither male nor female but all are one in Christ....

This was radical 2000 years ago where woman walked ten paces behind a man, covered their face and were forbidden to speak in the temple...

Today woman are still in many countries not respected to the standards of the Epistle logic in the Bible...

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

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xingu wrote:

1:28 The New English Bible

"God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that move on the earth."

No where does it say replenish nor give any hint of previous life on earth.

King James Bible

I will also remark that the same word "replenish" is used of Noah after the flood which clearly means refill...

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That's the problem with the KJB, old translation. Today, with a better knowledge base we can get a better translation.

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1183

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Quote:

This was radical 2000 years ago where woman walked ten paces behind a man, covered their face and were forbidden to speak in the temple...

As in all congregations of God's people, women should not address the meeting. They have no license to speak, but should keep their place as the law directs. If there is something they want to know they can ask their own husbands at home. It is a shocking thing that a woman should address a congregation.
1 Corinthians 34-35

A man who keeps his head covered when he preys or prophesies brings shame on his head; a woman, on the contrary, brings shame on her head if she preys or prophesies bare-headed; it is as bad as if her head were shaved.
1 Corinthians 11:5

Some things don't change, do they? More paganism bought over to the new Christian religion.

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Is this the same King James Bible where Rabshakeh taunted Israel by telling them they would eat sh*t and drink p*ss? Language has changed a lot, hasn't it?

You open up a huge door for the scoffers and agnostics when you make claims unsupported by scripture. No mention is made of Satan's rebellion before Genesis chapter 3. Lucifer is not a name given to anyone in the bible; it is a title.

It's aggravating when the arguments of unbelievers make more sense than those of believers.

But I will admit I get a certain satisfaction from exposing the errors of both.

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xingu wrote:

Quote:
This was radical 2000 years ago where woman walked ten paces behind a man, covered their face and were forbidden to speak in the temple...

As in all congregations of God's people, women should not address the meeting. They have no license to speak, but should keep their place as the law directs. If there is something they want to know they can ask their own husbands at home. It is a shocking thing that a woman should address a congregation.
1 Corinthians 34-35

A man who keeps his head covered when he preys or prophesies brings shame on his head; a woman, on the contrary, brings shame on her head if she preys or prophesies bare-headed; it is as bad as if her head were shaved.
1 Corinthians 11:5

Some things don't change, do they? More paganism bought over to the new Christian religion.

This was custom but not law... customs change even the Bible admits that...

Customs were there mostly for health reasons... if you reads the verses in the King James Bible it does not say woman are to be silent in the church but it says "the wives of the prophets" are to be silent in the church... they are to go home and talk with their husbands about it afterwards. The same goes for the husbands of the prophets Smile

they are to be silent in the church too...

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Funny, it says "as the law directs." Now you say it is custom.

As I say, the KJV is an old translation. I think translators today are more knowledgeable then those of the 17th century.

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xingu wrote:

Funny, it says "as the law directs." Now you say it is custom.

As I say, the KJV is an old translation. I think translators today are more knowledgeable then those of the 17th century.

Probably true but there are more books i.e. dictionaries, concordances, lexicons, interliners written to correspond to the King James version than all others combined...

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xingu wrote:

Funny, it says "as the law directs." Now you say it is custom.

As I say, the KJV is an old translation. I think translators today are more knowledgeable then those of the 17th century.

1 Corinthinas Chapter 14
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

This is referring to ONLY the wives of the prophets... not all women. We are all commanded to obedience says "the law" for not only women.

Also, it appears here that no one is supposed to speak out of turn in the church... that is what "decently and in order" means...

I like that phrase especially... decently and in order...

Couldn't have been translated better. I think the later translation of the Bible shows bigotry toward women but this translation has it near to right...

Some holy roller churches are exactly the opposite of the picture drawn here of how the church should be. I might add that women were also known to sing in the first century church too... but again, decently and in order... Smile

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Quote:

I think the later translation of the Bible shows bigotry toward women but this translation has it near to right...

Your right, it does show bigotry because that's the way it was. Like you said, in the pagan religions women had to be silent. If converting pagans you have to allow some of their customs and beliefs pass over to the new religion. One can see that in the Catholic Church today in Africa and South America. Some of the beliefs and customs of their old native religions are incorporated into the Catholic rite. The church doesn't like it and will not recognize it but it will be practiced regardless of what the Vatican likes.

Why do you think we have Christmas and Easter. Those are pagan religious customs painted over and given a new name, like a cheap taxi in a used car lot.

Just because the KJV is more unbiased does not mean it is more accurate. It just means it has a 17th century flavor. What we have in the NET is a more honest and accurate translation, warts and all.

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Xingu, that is so far out in fantasy land . . . women were denigrated as a matter of course in the Hebrew tribes. "Pagans" did not practice such repression of women, they had it introduced to them by christians. How typical of the christian zealot to attempt to pervert the historical record in this fashion. I'd love to have been able to see anyone try to foist that crap off onto my Keltic ancestors of two thousand years ago--the women of my people would have had their heads in an instant, and been dancing around the corpse.

The Judeo-christian tradition stinks of racism, sexism, bigotry and slavery and always has done.

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Religious bigotry is rampant in the christian culture.

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RexRed wrote:

xingu wrote:
Funny, it says "as the law directs." Now you say it is custom.

As I say, the KJV is an old translation. I think translators today are more knowledgeable then those of the 17th century.

Probably true but there are more books i.e. dictionaries, concordances, lexicons, interliners written to correspond to the King James version than all others combined...

Rex; Why beat around the bush? Women are denied some ministerial duties for a reason. That certainly does not mean that women are less than men. I'll explain this to you after I finish an assignment from Frank (and another one I'm working on for real life). That is, unless you already know and were too shy to tell.

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Setanta wrote:

Xingu, that is so far out in fantasy land . . . women were denigrated as a matter of course in the Hebrew tribes. "Pagans" did not practice such repression of women, they had it introduced to them by christians. How typical of the christian zealot to attempt to pervert the historical record in this fashion. I'd love to have been able to see anyone try to foist that crap off onto my Keltic ancestors of two thousand years ago--the women of my people would have had their heads in an instant, and been dancing around the corpse.

The Judeo-christian tradition stinks of racism, sexism, bigotry and slavery and always has done.

I believe the pagans in general were much more barbaric than the Hebrews towards women. There were some civilized pagan cultures that did treat woman as equals. The minoans were one of those cultures but there was an incident of rape that brought the minoans to shame...

Yes, the Hebrew kings practiced polygamy and there was this "subservient" thing toward husbands. "Wicked" women (and men) were slain in the Bible... Woman were given in marriage with dowries and not sold... According to the Bible, even Hebrew slaves were treated more humane. There were very strong female figures in the Bible also, Deborah, Ruth, Naomi, Sarah... Solomon's "beloved"... and many more... prophesying maidens... An African queen (Shibah) that was highly revered and even witches that were consulted on occasion...

The Hebrews were not offering their women in sacrifice to Isis. There is only one incident of a female being offered as a burnt sacrifice to God... Some scholars argue that she was to offer herself in a convent to chastity and not to death by fire. So I might put forth that the Hebrews though appearing barbaric seemed to have a higher moral character than their pagan counterparts... This was until paganism began to blend with judaism around 580 BC. Still The Hebrews never sunk to the depravity that pagan cultures like the Aztec did... The Chinese burying live women/wives with dead emperors and the same practice in the Norse rituals of dead monarchs. Cannibalism of the Philistines, Africans ets...

Now when it comes to so called Christians that have persecuted woman in the name of God, they have simply misinterpreted the revelation of God to the Hebrews, the Apostles and Jesus... This may have been a conscious error... Thus, they are not acting on behalf of Christianity. The true God should not be blamed for their "error"...

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Yeah, that's the stock line of christians whenever confronted by the disgusting enormities of their superstition--well, those aren't real christians.

You know as little of history as you do of science, and are just as incoherent when writing on the subject.

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neologist wrote:

RexRed wrote:
xingu wrote:
Funny, it says "as the law directs." Now you say it is custom.

As I say, the KJV is an old translation. I think translators today are more knowledgeable then those of the 17th century.

Probably true but there are more books i.e. dictionaries, concordances, lexicons, interliners written to correspond to the King James version than all others combined...
Rex; Why beat around the bush? Women are denied some ministerial duties for a reason. That certainly does not mean that women are less than men. I'll explain this to you after I finish an assignment from Frank (and another one I'm working on for real life). That is, unless you already know and were too shy to tell.

I do not believe that woman are denied one single ministerial duty in the body of Christ...

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