13
   

Was your vote in the 2016 elections meddled with?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 01:34 pm
@McGentrix,
This is a ridiculous question. Everybody likes to think they're not affected by adverts yet it's still a billion dollar industry. The vote was very narrow, Trump lost the popular vote, and like with the Brexit vote, Russian interference and illegal expenditure are bound to have swayed the vote somewhat. Whether or not it was enough to alter the outcome is moot.

The anecdotal evidence on here means nothing, most Trump supporters on A2K are far right extremists who'd vote for anyone who cosied up to racists and gun nuts.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 02:32 pm
@izzythepush,
Studies have also shown that many of the reviews for products we see on Amazon or place reviews on Yelp are fake and paid for reviews as well. It's cheap to do and can be done from any continent. Whole farms of people are paid to do this.

I know I read reviews before deciding what product to buy; the fact that a fake review may have swayed my purchase even a little bit upsets me and I'd like the fake reviews removed, even if I'm happy with the product.
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 03:14 pm
https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/24/nolte-trumps-job-approval-rating-proves-the-establishment-medias-influence-is-dead/
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 03:52 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

I'd do a poll, but not sure if we can here... So...
Survey Monkey is helping out.

Take the poll, one question, anonymous so might as well be honest.


No need for a poll man. I'm absolutely sure my vote was messed with! Them demmies swiped my vote from me, completely without my consent I might add, while I was peacefully sleeping in my dutch bed, dreaming patriotic dreams of dutch citizenship. Guess how I woke up the next morning... Absolutely mortified! I could feel my vote out there... lost... confused. Crying out for me...

I still miss it.

sniff.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 04:19 pm
@maporsche,
At least you're aware of it.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 05:35 pm
@Setanta,
A straw man?

No.

Am I tired of seeing "Russia meddled in the election!" every news cycle? yup.

Do I believe that Russia used propaganda and bought internet space to effect the election? I suppose so.

Do I believe it had any effect on the actual election? Nope.

I am pretty sure Russia and US try to influence elections around the globe pretty regularly. That's what happens when you carry the biggest sticks in the neighborhood.

I mostly believe that half the US was severely disappointed Hillary lost and they haven't stopped flailing about yet. When you gore the sacred cow (literally in this case) you have to put up with this bullshit.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 06:13 pm
@McGentrix,
Do you believe that Russian hacking of the DNC and releasing of selected emails is acceptable?
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 06:30 pm
I do.

People who are in power in government should always be concerned their **** will be discovered.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 07:03 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
If people stayed home, if they voted in a "non-traditional" manner, and were motivated by Russian propaganda, then that's illegal.
What law would that violate? And how does this law manage to comply with the First Amendment/Freedom of Speech?

Setanta wrote:
If members of Plump's campaign team colluded in that effort, that's illegal.
What law would be violated by this?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 07:07 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
That tape was officially released by Cohen's attorneys but let's run with it. If the tape was released by a US citizen as "whistleblowing" to show dishonest or illegal activities, then no, it is not unethical (and perhaps not even illegal). In this case, it clearly fits that category since the payments being discussed are potential violations of campaign contribution law. If Russia did it and they obtained the tape legally, I would consider that a propaganda attack although the person who gave it to them is guilty of conspiring with a foreign power. If Russia obtained the tape by illegal means, it would be much more serious and yes, it would change the way I viewed it. I would absolutely consider it an attack on our country.
If calling it whistle-blowing is all that is required to legitimize it, then let's refer to the Russian hacking as whistle-blowing.

The Democrats' claim that these payments are a violation of campaign finance law is pure sophistry.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 08:07 pm
@Lash,
engineer wrote:

Do you believe that Russian hacking of the DNC and releasing of selected emails is acceptable?

Lash wrote:

I do.

Then I assume you also approved of the Watergate break in since if it is ok for the Russians to break into a campaign, it should be even more acceptable for Americans to do it, right?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 08:14 pm
@engineer,
The Watergate break in was not nearly as bad as JFK and LBJ corrupting entire federal agencies to spy on their political opponents.

The Democrats lynched our President over nothing, and this should be grounds for outlawing the Democratic Party.
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 08:18 pm
@oralloy,
So you are saying, Yes, you approve of the Watergate break in?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 08:55 pm
@engineer,
As long as it was OK that JFK and LBJ corrupted entire federal agencies to spy on their political opponents, yes.

I have a very strong sense of fair play, and the Democrats regularly offend my sensibilities with their shenanigans.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 10:30 pm
@oralloy,
Wait...does our constitution apply to foreign nationals in other countries not on our soil?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:54 pm
@maporsche,
I don't see why not. Our constitution wouldn't have anything to do with how other governments treat their citizens, but it should control how our own government treats everyone.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Jul, 2018 12:00 am
@McGentrix,
You're offering opinion, and my opinion differs from yours. The elections act referenced in the page at the University of Kentucky which I linked makes it clear that it was a violation of campaign contribution law. I know of no one who says that the Russians meddled by attempting to directly alter the vote. So what the press calls Russian meddling refers to illegal contributions, illegal campaign contributions in the form of the propaganda they spread--which are clearly illegal. Referring to what the U.S. and Russia do to attempt to influence elections elsewhere is a tu quoque fallacy--that someone does something morally wrong does not excuse anyone else for doing the same thing.

As for your snotty remarks about those who voted for Mrs. Clinton: I suspuect that many people held their noses and voted for her, just as I did. In that context, that "sacred cow" remark is really a gratuitous insult.

It seems to me that you're going out of your way to sneer at those who don't think as you do. It seems to me that you've cobbled together a really stupid characterization of the Mueller investigation which has never, as far as I know, been about an accusation that the Russians interfered with the actual votes cast. So you've set up a straw man, whether or not you're willing to admit it.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Jul, 2018 05:12 am
@engineer,
No, but you have a point.

Some people see cyber theft on an equal plane with breaking and entering and taking. I do not.

If someone breaks into my home to take something that’s mine, there’s a good chance they’ll die there. I consider forcible entry to be a threat on my life.

And, I make moral judgments about what is stolen in a cyber theft, and what is done with it.

Breaking into the watergate offices by one campaign to spy on another isn’t protected behavior in my opinion. I do support both Snowden and Assange and Manning and other whistleblowers who want the people to know how their government is spending their money or lying to them.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Jul, 2018 06:09 am
@Lash,
The Russians broke into the DNC to spy and find information they could use to destabilize the US elections. I don't see how you can group them with Snowden and Manning who observed wrong-doing first hand and took action at great personal risk. If you say that it is OK for a foreign power to conduct cyber theft, then it should be completely OK for Americans to do it. It is a natural extension from excusing the Russian DNC cyber attack to allowing all parties to conduct cyber attacks on each other and if you OK the Russians doing it, then the Chinese, N. Koreans, etc. should all consider they have a green light.

I get it that you and others don't care for the opposing political party, but I think we should all agree that illegal behavior is illegal, not just illegal if targeted at our team and I would hope that all Americans would see illegal behavior from foreign powers targeted at our election system as a grave threat.

This is a quote from Rep. Trey Gowdy with whom I think I have almost zero policy agreements, but we agree on this :
Rep Trey Gowdy wrote:
But I do know this -- we got a classified briefing this week. There is no way you can listen to the evidence and not conclude, not that the Democrats were the victims, but the United States of America were the victims. We were the victims of what Russia did in 2016, and it ought to be a source of unity and rallying around the fact that we are never going to allow this to happen again and we're going to punish those who try to do it.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Jul, 2018 06:19 am
@engineer,
You’d asked about the difference in a physical break-in vs cyber break-in, equating Watergate with whistleblowers.

I was hoping to head off your next assumption with this statement:

Quote:
And, I make moral judgments about what is stolen in a cyber theft, and what is done with it.


 

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