Progressives (Liberals)

layman wrote:

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my comrades

Do you have a point you're trying to make, Walt?

Yes. See that interview.

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The theory that 'West' has some sort of responsibility and moral authority to intervene in the 'East'and the 'South' is an old idea. It used to be called "the white man's burden" way back when people were not politically correct.

I’ve had the thought that Abe's obsession was a bad idea too. I guess that makes us both racists.

In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,

If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that.

I’ve had the thought that Abe's obsession was a bad idea too. I guess that makes us both racists.

Lincoln also did not believe that the races were equal or should be treated equally.

Indeed, they probly don't consider themselves extreme right but in effect, the neocons did push the republican party further to the right.

Neoconservatism is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among liberal hawks who became disenchanted with the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture...

Through the 1950s and early 1960s, the future neoconservatives had endorsed the civil rights movement, racial integration and Martin Luther King Jr. From the 1950s to the 1960s, there was general endorsement among liberals for military action to prevent a communist victory in Vietnam...

A substantial number of neoconservatives were originally moderate socialists associated with the right-wing of the Socialist Party of America (SP) and its successor, Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA). Max Shachtman, a former Trotskyist theorist who developed a strong antipathy towards the New Left, had numerous devotees among SDUSA with strong links to George Meany's AFL-CIO.

Historically speaking, the term "neoconservative" refers to those who made the ideological journey from the anti-Stalinist left to the camp of American conservatism during the 1960s and 1970s.

To his credit, Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery, but that had nothing to do with his reasons for fighting the civil war. Furthermore, as noted above, he also did not believe that the races were equal or should be treated equally.

In the debates of 1858, Lincoln had also finally forced the coruscating issue of slavery out into the open. Despite his own remarks at Charleston, he managed to rise above the conventional racism of his time to prod Americans to think more deeply about both race and human rights. "Lincoln had nothing to gain by referring to rights for blacks," says Guelzo. "He was handing Douglas a club to beat him with. He didn't have to please the abolitionists, because they had nowhere else to go. He really believed that there was a moral line that no amount of popular sovereignty could cross."
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-lincoln-bested-douglas-in-their-famous-debates-7558180/

This Smithsonian article explains that Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery as something unacceptable within the paradigm of liberty, and so he was opposed to the use of popular sovereignty to expand its legality into new territories. He really believed that there was a moral line that no amount of popular sovereignty could cross."

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

They didn't "push" the republican party anywhere. They might have pushed some Democrats to alter their views, though...Historically speaking, the term "neoconservative" refers to those who made the ideological journey from the anti-Stalinist left to the camp of American conservatism during the 1960s and 1970s.

have been repeating it over and over for decades with NO evidence.

There is NO evidence that Jefferson ever said that. Right wing bloggers have been repeating it over and over for decades with NO evidence. Jefferson scholars keep debunking it but some idiot just repeats it again.

Thomas Jefferson's December 20, 1787, letter to James Madison contains objections to key parts of the new Federal Constitution. Primarily, Jefferson noted the absence of a bill of rights ....

Verdict: False

The Thomas Jefferson Foundation, which runs his Monticello estate, says there is no evidence that Jefferson ever said this.
Fact Check:
Jefferson penned many notable quotations on politics during his lifetime. However, there is no evidence that he actually spoke or wrote these words.
The Thomas Jefferson Foundation found no record of the saying in Jefferson’s collected writings, listing it as a “spurious quotation” on its website. It has been falsely attributed to the nation’s third president since at least 2002, according to etymologist Barry Popik

So, no moral obligations for other nations to intervene when 6 million Jews are systematically murdered?

There is NO evidence that Jefferson ever said that. Right wing bloggers have been repeating it over and over for decades with NO evidence.

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny...Democracy leads to anarchy, which is mob rule.

"Mob rule" really just means "majority rule", which is of course how we make laws...

Athens never experienced democracy,

You would be smart to confine yourself to making claims on topics you actually know something about.