Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 03:14 pm
@maporsche,
You are the only privileged white guy in that conversation, Your Porscheness. You’re so afraid your money is going to help someone else.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:05 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I disagree with Bernie on this and wholeheartedly agree that we shouldn’t be forced to buy health insurance.
Do you think we should be forced to pay taxes?

Is there a reason why "supporting a single payer system with taxes" is OK and "being forced to by insurance directly" is bad?

"Buying insurance directly" allows for marketplace competition between rival insurance plans.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:14 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Lash wrote:
I disagree with Bernie on this and wholeheartedly agree that we shouldn’t be forced to buy health insurance.
Do you think we should be forced to pay taxes?

Is there a reason why "supporting a single payer system with taxes" is OK and "being forced to by insurance directly" is bad?

"Buying insurance directly" allows for marketplace competition between rival insurance plans.


I’d like to see Medicare or some public option be a buy in option for people. If people want to pay more for health insurance with a health insurance company, they should be allowed to. I would like to see if private industry could compete with the public option on costs and services.

I also really really want to see our health insurance/coverage be decoupled from our employment marketplace.

These are interim steps that I think could be accomplished in a few elections. I think a strong national health insurance plan is a great idea, supplemented by a much smaller insurance industry. I think that will take several decades to implement.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:23 pm
@maporsche,
I could get behind a lot of ideas on healthcare really. Anything that moves us toward greater coverage and lowering costs (especially for the poor).

There are at least 6 versions of Medicare for all that have a lot of good ideas.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:37 pm
@maporsche,
He’s a liar. Know him. Watch what he says. Tastes like Hillary.

“I wish we could, but...”

BUT WHAT!?

Who owns this ******* country?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:40 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I think that will take several decades to implement.


it shouldn't take long at all - if it becomes law

other countries did it almost instantaneously. not sure why the US would be more backward re implementation
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 04:42 pm
@ehBeth,
I think it will take decades before there are enough Americans that support that legislation. Once it’s voted in it will probably take at least 10 years to fully implement. It took Obamacare something like 8 years before all the stuff was fully in place.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 05:14 pm
@maporsche,
Bullshit
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 05:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Which ones did it insteanously?


Look how long it took to go from Hillarycare to getting Obamacare? And it took a financial meltdown before enough Democrats were elected to even get that much done. The immediate consequence of which was to vote out Democrats in the House and Senate and elect Trump.

Decades. No matter how loud progressives are today, the nation does not support Medicare for all (any of the 6-10 versions that have yet to be fleshed out). You need at least 60 senators and we can’t even get progressives to stop insulting people like me who are pretty much on their side legislatively.

I’d vote for any candidate in favor of Medicare for all.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 05:40 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I’d like to see Medicare or some public option be a buy in option for people. If people want to pay more for health insurance with a health insurance company, they should be allowed to. I would like to see if private industry could compete with the public option on costs and services.
It looks like monthly premiums for Medicare Part A are $437 for 2019, and $135.50 for Medicare Part B.

https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/part-a-costs
https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/part-b-costs

People would also need a Medigap plan (F or G if they want decent coverage).

https://www.medicare.gov/supplements-other-insurance/how-to-compare-medigap-policies

And people would need Medicare Part D coverage for prescriptions.

I'm not entirely sure that private insurance would be more expensive. But I'm fine with allowing Medicare to compete in the marketplace alongside private plans.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 05:42 pm
@oralloy,
Those Medicare prices don’t account for age or health. They are the oldest people who need the most healthcare.

I’d imagine a 30 year old trying to buy into Medicare would cost a lot less than those prices.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 05:45 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
It took Obamacare something like 8 years before all the stuff was fully in place.

Some taxes in Obamacare were not supposed to take effect for 10 years after implemented. Like the tax on Cadillac insurances.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 06:03 pm
@maporsche,
Instantaneous in political time Smile

____


Saskatchewan completed implementation in less than a year from the election that brought it into force.

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-birth-of-medicare

There's a actually a great old thread here at a2k, which is the transcript of cavfancier's grandfather's memoirs. He was one of the doctors who played a significant role in the implementation of medicare in Saskatchewan.

( wow - google is my friend - https://able2know.org/topic/7047-1 )

Amazing what they got done without computers/current levels of technology.

The process for the balance of Canada

Quote:
By 1964 the pro-Medicare forces in the country were riding the crest of public opinion during a period when the political culture was moving to the left. The political alignment of national parties saw six years of minority governments over three elections between 1962 and 1968, and this favoured those political forces attempting to move the country in a more progressive direction. The NDP was growing and this strengthened left Liberals who argued that their party must protect their left flank. This in turn encouraged the red Tories within the Progressive Conservatives, who argued that the party must move left to remain electorally competitive. All of this was occurring during a minority situation when an election might occur at any time and no party wanted to be caught on the wrong side of a popular issue like public Medicare.

It took fierce struggles within both the Liberal and Progressive Conservative parliamentary parties, but in the end the party whips forced the right wing into submission. The National Medical Care Insurance Act was passed in the House of Commons on December 8, 1966, by an overwhelming vote of 177 to 2. The starting date was July 1, 1968, and the Act provided that the federal government would pay about half of Medicare costs in any province with insurance plans that met the criteria of being universal, publicly administered, portable and comprehensive. By 1971 all provinces had established plans which met the criteria.


once medicare started in July 1968, it took less than 18 months to have systems set up and running in 13 provinces and territories.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 06:03 pm
I’ve got healthcare through my employer like most of us, but I just went out to the ACA market to price out what a plan like mine would cost.

$503/mo for an almost 39 year old male, non-smoker. That’s with a $2000 deductible (same as my current company).

My portion of my healthcare plan currently costs me $120/mo with my employer picking up the rest.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 06:04 pm
@maporsche,
Like all insurance, the earlier people sign up, the more affordable it should be long-term.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 06:05 pm
@ehBeth,
I’ll read up on that.

That vote though, 177-2, would never come close in the USA though.

Any law passed would be held up in court for probably 8 years.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 10:25 pm
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Verified account

@Ocasio2018
2h2 hours ago
More
“Until you start focusing on what needs to be done, rather than what is politically possible, there is no hope.

If solutions within the system are so impossible to find, then maybe we should change the system itself.”
- @GretaThunberg
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 10:46 pm
Progressive caucus members who own shares in JP Morgan Chase:

Matt Cartwright (PA)
Katherine Clark (MA)
Lois Frankel (FL)
Raul Grijalva (AZ)
Joe Kennedy III (MA)
Alan Lowenthal (CA)
Jerrold Nadler (NY)
Chellie Pingree (ME)
Peter Welch (VT)
John Yarmuth (KY)

This is progressive?
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 10:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
So progressives cannot own ANY stock?

I just want to make sure I’ve got the rules straight.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:01 pm
@maporsche,
Oh.
My.
God.

Bernie Sanders owns up to $1,200,000 in STOCKS!!!

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/assets/Bernie-Sanders?cid=N00000528&year=2014
 

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