Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
That’s sort of stupid, Walter.

Does the fact that this is happening now mean to you that it can’t be mentioned because it happened before? What type of criticism do you have?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:11 pm
@Lash,
Perhaps it is stupid. But I remember a discussion many years ago, when Thomas and I (and others) discussed the various health systems and the two of us preferred the Swiss system (though different arguments).

And now, the Swiss really are handling the crisis better than we do. (Although I'm quite astonished how fairly well it is done by here, even by conservative state governments).
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:28 pm
What is glaringly obvious in the U.S. is that Plump has gutted the systems by which the nation would ordinarily deal with such a pandemic. By basically saying that the states could fight it out for the necessary health care equipment and supplies, he very likely has lit the fuse of a bomb he is now sitting on. In his covid19 thread, Engineer has pointed out that when the Spanish flu raged in the United States (it actually originated in Kansas City), that when responses were relaxed, the rate of new cases and deaths shot up again. If people go back to work in under three weeks, and new cases and deaths climb rapidly, Plump's ratings will drop a lot faster than they have risen, and, I suspect, they will drop a lot further than they have risen.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Are they really handling it better? Based on today's data Switzerland has 1,355 active cases of the disease/million of population, while Germany has 471. The Death Rate ( deaths/closed case) in Switzerland is 59, while it is 4% in Germany. The big unknown in these comparisons is the number of unreported mild cases in each (or any) country.

Death rates are naturally higher in the early phases of the epidemic before the rate of recoveries catches up to new infection. This and other factors including the % of unreported mild infections could significantly distort any comparison.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:32 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I’m hearing that Germany is posting much fewer deaths per infection. I’m happy for your country. I hope our leaders are smart enough to ask what you’re doing.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:33 pm
Quote:
I hope our leaders are smart enough to ask what you’re doing.

Testing, testing, testing...
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:36 pm
@hightor,
We don’t seem to have testing kits, reportedly.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:39 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The big unknown in these comparisons is the number of unreported mild cases in each (or any) country.

It is an apple and orange thing. You cannot expect the same results in every country. That is why comparing numbers is not really a valid way to draw any conclusions. Except for commonalities like existing ailments and age.

I posted an article from "The Spectator" in the Trump thread.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:42 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

What is glaringly obvious in the U.S. is that Plump has gutted the systems by which the nation would ordinarily deal with such a pandemic. By basically saying that the states could fight it out for the necessary health care equipment and supplies, he very likely has lit the fuse of a bomb he is now sitting on. In his covid19 thread, Engineer has pointed out that when the Spanish flu raged in the United States (it actually originated in Kansas City), that when responses were relaxed, the rate of new cases and deaths shot up again. If people go back to work in under three weeks, and new cases and deaths climb rapidly, Plump's ratings will drop a lot faster than they have risen, and, I suspect, they will drop a lot further than they have risen.


How much of a bump do you think he will get out of handing out $1200 checks?
Serious question - I have no idea.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:51 pm
@snood,
Quote:
How much of a bump do you think he will get out of handing out $1200 checks?


I have a feeling that the same pattern will continue, with sections of the country dissatisfied with and critical of the administration's effort and other parts of the country more approving.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:52 pm
Quote:
Hollywood’s Me Too Group Turned Down Biden Sexual Assault Accuser

Since launching in 2017, Times Up has raised more than $24 million through the crowdfunding platform GoFundMe and has provided substantial legal support for big name accusers such as those abused by Harvey Weinstein.

In Reade’s case however, she was shown the door.

In February, Reade was told after discussions on her case between Time’s Up and NWLC that the organization would refrain from offering Reade their support.

When trying to be heard, Reade told Krystal Ball on The Hill’s ‘Rising‘ that she approached Sens. Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts who brushed off her claims.

Never mind that the two senators both openly endorsed the impeachment of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh over demonstrably weak and unverified allegations from more than 30 years ago.

Reade detailed her sexual assault from Biden in an interview with Katie Halper published Wednesday.



georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:52 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

What is glaringly obvious in the U.S. is that Plump has gutted the systems by which the nation would ordinarily deal with such a pandemic. By basically saying that the states could fight it out for the necessary health care equipment and supplies, he very likely has lit the fuse of a bomb he is now sitting on. In his covid19 thread, Engineer has pointed out that when the Spanish flu raged in the United States (it actually originated in Kansas City), that when responses were relaxed, the rate of new cases and deaths shot up again. If people go back to work in under three weeks, and new cases and deaths climb rapidly, Plump's ratings will drop a lot faster than they have risen, and, I suspect, they will drop a lot further than they have risen.


I doubt seriously that you can identify any specific actions Trump has taken to "gut" our ability to deal this this epidemic of a new disease. We Remain a Federal Republic in which the states retain primary responsibility and authority for these matters.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
We Remain a Federal Republic in which the states retain primary responsibility and authority for these matters.

I have mentioned that fact numerous times.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 02:57 pm
@snood,
If you live in rural Arkansas, that could pay your rent and utilities, and maybe a trip to the grocery store. If you live in New York, that won't pay your rent, unless you live in a cardboard box. But what the burden of my post was that if people go back to work in under three weeks, and hospitalizations sky rocket, the fat boy in the White House is screwed.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:00 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
We Remain a Federal Republic in which the states retain primary responsibility and authority for these matters.

States have to maintain balanced budgets and states cannot print money. There's no way states can afford to pay solely for the expenses of this pandemic.

Job Vacancies and Inexperience Mar Federal Response to Coronavirus

Unfilled jobs and high turnover mean the government is ill equipped for a public health crisis, said many former and current federal officials and disaster experts.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Of the 75 senior positions at the Department of Homeland Security, 20 are either vacant or filled by acting officials, including Chad F. Wolf, the acting secretary who recently was unable to tell a Senate committee how many respirators and protective face masks were available in the United States.

The National Park Service, which like many federal agencies is full of vacancies in key posts, tried this week to fill the job of a director for the national capital region after hordes of visitors flocked to see the cherry blossoms near the National Mall, creating a potential public health hazard as the coronavirus continues to spread.

At the Department of Veterans Affairs, workers are scrambling to order medical supplies on Amazon after its leaders, lacking experience in disaster responses, failed to prepare for the onslaught of patients at its medical centers.

Ever since President Trump came into office, a record high turnover and unfilled jobs has emptied offices across wide swaths of the federal bureaucracy. Now, current and former administration officials and disaster experts say the coronavirus has exposed those failings as never before and left parts of the federal government unprepared and ill equipped for what may be the largest public health crisis in a century.

Some 80 percent of the senior positions in the White House below the cabinet level have turned over during Mr. Trump’s administration, with about 500 people having departed since the inauguration. Mr. Trump is on his fourth chief of staff, his fourth national security adviser and his fifth secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

Between Mr. Trump’s history of firing people and the choice by many career officials and political appointees to leave, he now finds himself with a government riddled with vacancies, acting department chiefs and, in some cases, leaders whose professional backgrounds do not easily match up to the task of managing a pandemic.

“Right now for the life of me, I don’t know who speaks for D.H.S.,” said Janet Napolitano, a secretary of homeland security under President Barack Obama. “Having nonacting leadership, and I think having consistency in your leadership team and the accumulation of experience, really matters. And I think it would be fair to say the current administration hasn’t sustained that.”

(...)

nyt
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:04 pm
@layman,
If this accusation was against Trump, it would be "the story" for weeks.

But, of course, the propaganda arm of Biden's campaign (the MSN) doesn't even mention it.

Just like the Biden fanboys here, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:12 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
States have to maintain balanced budgets and states cannot print money. There's no way states can afford to pay solely for the expenses of this pandemic.


Trump can't print money either. Nor does he have the "power of the purse." Take it up with Pelosi and Burnie, eh?

Despite those limitations, Trump has done a huge amount to get the necessary equipment and funding to States, including, but not limited to, convincing Ford to use F-150 parts to make ventilators, and liquor distilleries to convert their facilities to producing hand sanitizer .
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:13 pm
The lack of testing kits is a serious problem and one which has the potential to spread the virus through the population like wildfire. If infected people are not identified until they are hospitalized, they could infect dozens of individuals, and in some jobs, hundreds of individuals before they are detected. The Plump administration was warned about this before the fat boy was inaugurated. Contrary to Trump’s Claim, A Pandemic Was Widely Expected at Some Point, from Fact Check--dot-org.

As for having gutted the nation's pandemic response system:

Quote:
Amid warnings from public health officials that a 2020 outbreak of a new coronavirus could soon become a pandemic involving the U.S., alarmed readers asked Snopes to verify a rumor that U.S. President Donald Trump had “fired the entire pandemic response team two years ago and then didn’t replace them.”

The claim came from a series of tweets posted by Judd Legum, who runs Popular Information, a newsletter he describes as being about “politics and power.” Legum’s commentary was representative of sharp criticism from Democratic legislators (and some Republicans) that the Trump administration had ill-prepared the country for a pandemic even as one was looming on the horizon.

Legum outlined a series of cost-cutting decisions made by the Trump administration in preceding years that had gutted the nation’s infectious disease defense infrastructure. The “pandemic response team” firing claim referred to news accounts from Spring 2018 reporting that White House officials tasked with directing a national response to a pandemic had been ousted.

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.


Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team? I have posted the entire text of the Snopes article which rates this as true.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:18 pm
@layman,

Quote:
Trump can't print money either.

I would look at the list of things he has been accused of. Counterfeiting might be on on there and Schiff might have the evidence. Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:19 pm
@Setanta,
Snopes is for dopes. It has lost all credibility which was, years ago, quite high.
 

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