oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What she means is, the Medicare system is already in place. It currently only applies to people over 65. But it is in place.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:04 am
@Lash,
Quote:
First, in response to the argument for Medicare for All...

Um, if you didn't notice, narcissist, that response was addressed to a remark by Olivier and wasn't a response to Medicare for All.
Quote:

It’s utter avoidance of the common sense plans being advocated by the only candidate who prioritizes humanity.

He's also the only candidate who's had the guts to advocate for population control!
Quote:

You advocate time travel to the past.

Ridiculous. I never suggested that and I don't know where you came up with that interpretation.
Quote:
You advocate ignoring Bernie’s policies because some dickheads don’t like Bernie.

Look, it has nothing to do with Sanders. Or Biden. The particular plan known as "Medicare for All" shouldn't be considered the last word on the subject. The pandemic has shone a light on problems in our health care system that really have nothing to do with the Sanders plan, the Warren plan, or the Biden plan. The whole issue should be looked at in light of what's occurring now and we shouldn't be exploiting the widespread disruption and suffering caused by the virus to push one particular plan which was put together before the pandemic. Everything isn't about "Bernie". Everything isn't about you.
Quote:
Many of the people who are stiff-necked against the guy with the best plans are undergoing a die-off.

Nor should we be counting on the death of older voters (and Sanders belongs to this demographic) to help us accomplish something for purely political ends.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Wrong again. The successful program we have in place—that Sanders, me, and millions of others want to expand to everyone is: Medicare.

We’d like to make it: For All.

But, go ahead and tell me what you think we should do, man who didn’t know we had existing Medicare that was working well.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:37 am
@Lash,
I didn't consider Medicare to a system since we've obviously a different vocabulary - the German equivalent would be the health insurance via social assistance and/or pension.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:38 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Climate activists have noticed the same thing.

Nice try, Shifty, but no dice. Olivier added into the thread of conversation that connected here to this post: https://able2know.org/topic/468987-839#post-6977013
...about the change being possible all along.

More $.87 dodges to try to avoid the content of the discussion.

Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 08:40 am
@hightor,
It’s about saving people’s lives. You and other weirdos try to make it about me.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:08 am
Quote:
Mona Sigal M.D.Squared sos
@MonaSigal
· 14h
I am almost 59 y old.
I am an emergency physician.
I have lived in 4 different countries in my life.

Never ever in my entire life have I HATED another human being as profoundly and deeply as I hate this monster.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:16 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Nice try, Shifty, but no dice.

Um, the post you refer to doesn't mention "Medicare for All":
Peter Bolton wrote:
As the coronavirus pandemic escalates around the globe, debate has heated up about how governments and international institutions should respond. Already some surprisingly progressive proposals have been floated – and often from unexpected quarters. It raises the question of whether radical changes to our economic and social systems have been possible all along. And also if they were falsely labelled unworkable because they went against powerful interests.

It identifies a general phenomenon, the tendency of people to try anything in response to an emergency, even things which they had been known to oppose previously. To which Olivier responded:
Olivier5 wrote:
...change may be hard when you live in comfort, but easy to do when you're afraid to die.

Anyone can look at the thread; it's very clear that my response was addressed specifically to Olivier's comment. "Medicare for All" was never mentioned.
Lash wrote:
You and other weirdos try to make it about me.

No. You tried to make it about you. Weird.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:20 am
@blatham,
Progressives hate. It's what progressives do.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:22 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Yes, that's probably the case. I can't help wondering, however, what the response would be if the virus tended to target the young rather than the old, like the swine flu of 2012. I think, if anything, the response would have actually been quicker.

Maybe but likely only after it'd killed the son of a senator... It needs to be personal for the decision makers (and the rest of us), for them to contemplate radical change (and for us to implement it). Look at the AIDS pandemic: the politicians didn't care that much at first because they were on the wole not in the disease main casualty demographic.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:28 am
@oralloy,
Oh for **** sake... don't you have a friend who is a progressive? An uncle? A nephew?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:28 am
@hightor,
LOL! I’ll see if I can find a sixth grader to tease out the central idea of that paragraph for you. Desperately avoidant. Again.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:37 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Look at the AIDS pandemic: the politicians didn't care that much at first because they were on the whole not in the disease main casualty demographic.

Absolutely. It was that way with opiate addiction. And you see that with this pandemic, those who smugly suggest that, "it's just the old, just the chronically ill," as if that means compassion can be suspended.

My Life Is More ‘Disposable’ During This Pandemic
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:40 am
@Olivier5,
I know some progressives. They're certainly allergic to facts, aren't they?

However, most people in the area where I live are well to the right of me.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:42 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I’ll see if I can find a sixth grader to tease out the central idea of that paragraph for you.

"Medicare for All" is not mentioned. The excerpt stands on its own as a social observation. You're the one desperately trying to make it about you. Again.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:46 am
@hightor,
It’s about everybody who can’t afford to go to the doctor—no matter how desperate you try to distract from them because looking at it honestly, straight on makes anyone playing rhetorical games with life and death complicit.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 09:53 am
@Lash,
Right. And all I said was that campaigning exclusively for "Medicare for All" might not be the best approach. It might be better to develop a plan which includes many of its features but directly responds to the present crisis and isn't tied to a failed campaign.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 10:36 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Nor should we be counting on the death of older voters (and Sanders belongs to this demographic) to help us accomplish something for purely political ends.


Even older voters dying won't be enough to save Bernie. The mortality rate 2-3% at worst (I personally think this number is too high and based on testing being woefully unavailable).

Biden is winning by 10, 20, 30!!! points.

Republican voters skew even older than Democratic ones, so that "take" would also make it more likely for Biden to win in November.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 10:37 am
@Lash,
Let's be honest (for a change)...you DON'T want the current medicare system available to all.

Bernie doesn't either.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2020 11:06 am
@maporsche,
Wrong. Read the plan.
 

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