Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 03:21 am
@Brand X,
Brand X wrote:

Much to the DNC and media's chagrin Bernie keeps plummeting to first place.

Interestingly enough, he seems to benefit from the negative coverage and the elite panic.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 05:45 am
The more voices who attack bernie, cause more to join him. It seems that the trump voters, independents, people who quit voting and Bernie voters see through the media/ centrist alliance and hate them for it. Every attack brings in hundreds more supporters. It’s like a snowball effect now across the country.

Hillary Clinton, Chris Matthews, and the fruit salad turnover called MSNBC are going to win it for us.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 06:07 am
James Baldwin
“How much time do you want?”
https://youtu.be/OCUlE5ldPvM
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 06:35 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Interestingly enough, he seems to benefit from the negative coverage and the elite panic.

It's been that way from the beginning. Which is why I always thought the constant whining about not receiving positive treatment from the establishment press was totally off the mark. Sanders is supposed to represent a threat to the status quo and his movement shouldn't seek or expect its approval.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 06:46 am
Scott Lee Moser ( Bernie Bruh ) Retweeted

Sarah Abdallah
@sahouraxo
·
15h
Outrageous. Vladimir Putin literally boasting about flagrantly meddling in US domestic affairs and enacting laws that undermine the constitutional rights of the American people.

Oh, wait... That’s actually Israel’s premier Netanyahu.

Nothing at all to see here, move along. 🤗
Quote Tweet

RT
@RT_com
· Feb 13
#Twitter cries 'foreign meddling' after #Netanyahu says Tel Aviv 'promoted' anti-boycott laws in US

Okay if #Israel does it, tho.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 08:43 am
Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders have similar histories and similar messages, but where do they differ? A report by Jonathan Freedland in New Hampshire (The Guardian).

The electability business: is Bernie Sanders America's Corbyn?
Quote:
Some Democratic observers fear their party is following the British left’s road to defeat

British politics rarely intrudes into a US presidential election. In 1988, Joe Biden was forced to abandon his first bid for the White House after it emerged that he had quoted without attribution a chunk of oratory from the then Labour party leader, Neil Kinnock. In 2016, Donald Trump deployed Nigel Farage as an occasional mascot on the stump, the Brexit victory in that year’s referendum deemed a happy omen that populists could defy the odds and win. In 2020, a third name has surfaced, offered as a cautionary tale to a Democratic party that this week confirmed a septuagenarian radical socialist and longtime backbench rebel as its frontrunner. That name is Jeremy Corbyn.

“I don’t want the Democratic party of the United States to be the Labour party of the United Kingdom,” James Carville, the victorious manager of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign, told audiences on cable TV and in New Hampshire this week, warning that if Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders, they will almost certainly be following Corbyn’s Labour party to defeat.

On the US campaign trail, journalists, strategists for rival Democratic candidates, and even the occasional voter cite Corbyn in the case against Sanders, offering the result of December’s UK general election as evidence. A week spent in New Hampshire watching the Vermont senator and his opponents do battle provides some answers to the question many US Democrats are asking themselves: is Sanders fated to be America’s Corbyn – or are the two men, and their two situations, radically different?

Team Sanders is understandably reluctant to encourage the parallel. “I didn’t hear that on the streets, I heard it in the bubble,” Nina Turner, a national co-chair of the Sanders campaign, told the Guardian. “The talking heads and the elites said it to try to dismantle Senator Bernie Sanders, to say, ‘Aha, this can’t happen!’” All the same, Turner was keen to add that “both men have a healthy respect for each other”.

Yet within minutes of that conversation, the first New Hampshire voter stopped by the Guardian at a polling station in downtown Manchester – retired airline pilot Paul Demars – volunteered, unprompted, that he was voting for Sanders even though “I was nervous about the electability business: it’d be a real bummer if he got Corbyn’d”.

The similarities between the men are obvious. Both spent decades on the political margins, regarded as perennial troublemakers with no prospect of gaining national power. To their critics, they remain stubbornly stuck in the 1970s; to their admirers, they have stayed unwaveringly true to their principles. They both exude a rumpled authenticity, their appearance – Sanders’ wayward hair, Corbyn’s beard – visible proof that they are not careerist politicians of the usual stripe.

Their messages are similar too. Sanders wants “an economy that works for all, not just the 1%”, while Corbyn stood as the champion of “the many, not the few”. Both are exponents of a particular brand of leftwing populism, offering themselves as tribunes of the hard-working majority against an elite of bankers and billionaires that has rigged the economy in its own favour.

Both boast of the scale of their ambition. Corbyn trumpeted Labour’s 2019 manifesto as the most radical programme in a generation, while the warmup track at a Sanders rally is Tracy Chapman’s Talkin’ Bout a Revolution. Both have promised that victory for them would see their respective countries transformed.

That has opened up a line of attack against both men which is remarkably similar. Sanders’ opponents criticise him for implausibly offering “free stuff” to voters, just as the last Labour manifesto was lampooned as a wishlist of impossible giveaways. Sanders provokes scepticism from Americans when he says his healthcare plan would not only guarantee free medical care for everyone but also free eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care. It triggers a chorus of questions about where the money would come from – a chorus with distinct echoes of the reaction that greeted Labour’s pledge of free broadband along with a series of other costly measures. Some policies are identical, such as free university tuition for all.

The effect in both cases is to redefine internal party opponents as dull “centrists”, cautious defenders of the status quo. Corbyn did that to rivals Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall when he ran for the Labour leadership in 2015, and Sanders is doing it to Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar now, just as he did it to Hillary Clinton in 2016. If anything, Sanders goes further. Corbyn never suggested his Labour opponents were agents of the City of London, the way Sanders supporters broke into chants of “Wall Street Pete” in New Hampshire last weekend.

Which brings us to the followers of both men. The crowds at Sanders rallies are strikingly similar to the audiences that once came out for Corbyn. Huge numbers of young people, especially students, joined by sixty-somethings who are thrilled that, at last, “we have our party back”. The latter group reckons Sanders is returning the party to the best traditions of Franklin Roosevelt, just as Corbyn liked to invoke the glory of 1945 and Clement Attlee.

Some Democrats welcome the infusion of much-needed youth and energy that Sanders has brought in, hopeful that the independent senator – he’s still not a registered Democrat – might make good on his promise to expand the electorate and bring in previous non-voters. (That was the promise of Corbyn too.) But others lament what they regard as the aggressive intolerance of the “Bernie Bros”, accusing them of slamming those who dare voice anything but wholehearted devotion to the leader. A report this week described “the swarm” that descended on a leftwing organisation that endorsed Elizabeth Warren rather than Sanders, detailing a level of online abuse that would be familiar to those on the wrong end of what they would call “the Corbyn cult”. When the MSNBC host Chuck Todd quoted an article that had branded Sanders backers digital “brownshirts”, a hashtag campaign by Sanders defenders soon had #SackChuckTodd trending.

The result is a wariness in some quarters – most notably among Sanders’ rivals – to attack him directly, for fear of stirring his supporters’ wrath. Several US journalists admit, albeit privately, to a similar nervousness at going too directly after Sanders – a fear that might resonate with at least some of their counterparts in Britain.

But if there are similarities, there are glaring differences too. Perhaps most significant is that Bernie Sanders has suffered nothing like the protracted onslaught of criticism that rained down on Corbyn, from press and internal party opponents alike, from the moment he became leader. It’s one reason why many Democrats are sceptical of polls showing Sanders would beat Donald Trump in a head-to-head matchup. Sanders, they say, has never been on the receiving end of serious negative campaigning or even a thorough trawl through his back catalogue of statements and past affiliations (including, for example, to the Socialist Workers party of America). Clinton steered clear of that tactic in 2016, calculating that it would backfire. So Sanders has never experienced the scrutiny that Corbyn endured – not yet, at any rate. When it comes, say the doubters, his numbers will tank.

Still, there are some contrasts with Corbyn that might offer Democrats reassurance. For one thing, Sanders has no credible case to answer on antisemitism; on the contrary, he identifies strongly as a Jew. A couple of his congressional supporters have made clumsy and insensitive remarks, but that is a world away from the decades-long, personal record of appearances with, and indulgence of, antisemites that proved so toxic for Corbyn.

Similarly, while Corbyn was often accused of “siding with his country’s enemies” – note the £20,000 he was paid to be a presenter on the Iranian state network Press TV or his 2009 meeting with Bashar al-Assad – Sanders is rather less vulnerable on that score. Some admiring words for Fidel Castro and the Sandinistas, along with a honeymoon in Moscow, are about the most damaging items on the Sanders charge sheet. That’s largely because of a difference in world view between the two men. While the senator’s chief focus has long been on domestic issues of economic inequality, for Corbyn, opposition to what he would call US imperialism was for many years the defining core of his politics. One illustration: Sanders supported and voted for the Nato-led military intervention over Kosovo in 1999; Corbyn opposed it.

There’s one last contrast that should give Sanders supporters cheer. Even Corbyn’s most devoted admirers would never describe him as a great orator. Sanders, though, is a compelling speaker: focused, strong-voiced, able to land a rhetorical riff in a way that usually eludes the Labour leader.

Sanders will need all those gifts if he is chosen to take on Trump in November. A leftwing leader fighting a fair-haired populist with only a casual relationship with the truth has the odds stacked against him – as Corbyn knows all too well.

coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 08:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
A report by Jonathan Freedland in New Hampshire (The Guardian).

The NYT of the UK. Not a reliable source for the real truth about anything.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 09:00 am
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Not a reliable source for the real truth about anything.

Did you even attempt to read the article? What statements do you find fault with? What facts do you dispute? What do you consider "unreliable" about the piece? Are you suggesting that the reporter wasn't in New Hampshire? Are you challenging his analysis of the similarities between to two candidates and their campaigns? It looks to me like you just showed up to say something negative, and in this case, insipid as well.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 09:01 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
The NYT of the UK. Not a reliable source for the real truth about anything.
New Hampshire might sound for you as being located in the UK - but it actually is a state in the New England region of the northeastern United States. But you're faintly correct (NEW YORK Times): The Guardian's US edition has the offices in New York city.

But regarding the report: what is your truth regarding if Sanders is America's Corbyn?
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 09:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But regarding the report: what is your truth regarding if Sanders is America's Corbyn?

I did not claim to know the truth, only that you will not get it from that source.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 09:35 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
I did not claim to know the truth, only that you will not get it from that source.
So where could I get the truth regarding the comparison between Sanders and Corbyn?

I've met Corbyn personally but years ago. And I don't know Sanders besides from that what Lash posts here and what is reported elsewhere.

As always, you would be a great help and support in finding the truth!

(Somehow I've missed your response to hightor's post and questions.)
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 09:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
So where could I get the truth regarding the comparison between Sanders and Corbyn?

I do not know and I do not care. My claim is the Guardian is a liberal propaganda machine. What part of that don't you understand?
Quote:
Somehow I've missed your response to hightor's post and questions.

I have let Hightor know about the NYT plenty of times. I am not sure what you mean, but. again, I do not care.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 10:27 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
What part of that don't you understand?
I suppose, you are referring to the fact that many Liberal Democrat voters are Guardian readers. But generally, the Guardian can be considered as centre-left (in the European meaning).

What I really don't understand is your "propaganda machine". "Propaganda" for/by whom and/or for what?
You certainly have a deep knowledge of The Guardian and can quote some examples.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 10:59 am
@Lash,
@sahouraxo wrote:
enacting laws that undermine the constitutional rights of the American people.

There is no Constitutional right to hold a government job. No one wants their mail delivered by neonazis.


Lash wrote:
Okay if #Israel does it, tho.

It is OK if anyone does it. Opposing neonazis is a good thing.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 11:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
New Hampshire might sound for you as being located in the UK - but it actually is a state in the New England region of the northeastern United States.

I didn't see anything in his post that claimed that New Hampshire was in the UK.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 11:50 am
@oralloy,
Attack boy Ollie, when getting your clock cleaned try to change the subject. A tried and true republican tactic.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 12:03 pm
@RABEL222,
I was not getting my clock cleaned, and I did not change the subject.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 12:22 pm
Walter provided us all an interesting Guardian article in which the author outlined some similarities and differences (mostly involving electability) between the ill-fated Jeremy Corbyn of the UK, and Bernie Sanders, suggesting Bernie may be exempt from some of the political baggage that contributed to Corbyn's stunning defeat in the last UK election. The most memorable and obvious difference is that Corbyn is an anti-Semite, while Sanders is a Jew.

In general the listed similarities between these two were, in my view, much more significant and meaningful, relative to our forthcoming elections, than were the indicated differences. It also appears very evident that many in the Democrat Establishment here already view Sanders as a liability, and have been, for some time, working rather desperately to find and promote a more electable alternative to any (including Bernie) in the odd collection of initial contenders for their nomination. Indeed this is what led to the, initially fairly successful, Biden entry into the race.
Unfortunately for them, Biden has proven to be a rather unsteady campaigner, and his support in the primary contest is falling fast - even relative to the narrowing group of surviving candidates, none of whom looks like a winning candidate for the final election. Interestingly, Biden appears to have been more injured among his potential supporters by the Impeachment efforts of Speaker Pelosi and her Schiff/Nadler assistants, than has been Trump among his.

Now in the wake of Biden's failure, Michael Bloomberg, a former RINO, is making a late capture effort at the Democrat candidacy and actively using both his own large fortune and the assets of the News Network he owns to achieve it. This presents a complex tradeoff for many Democrats, in that, while Bloomberg does indeed have a real record of success in Political office, he also has a lot of repair work to do in making his political record compatible with contemporary Democrat rhetoric, and an attendant high hurtle to overcome with the perception that he is a billionaire attempting to buy the nomination. ( Some Democrats will quickly get over that one, while others may not.).

Together all of these issues point to a serious struggle ahead among Democrats to achieve both party unity and an electable candidate. Such struggles have been overcome before. This one may succeed, but the uncertainties and risks appear to be high.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 12:27 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I didn't see anything in his post that claimed that New Hampshire was in the UK.

You did not see it because I never said it. Walter takes things for granted, like so many others here do. When they are wrong they will not acknowledge it, or admit it.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2020 12:28 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Attack boy Ollie

Apparently you have reading or comprehension issues.
0 Replies
 
 

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