oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 11:34 am
@blatham,
When you criticize Israel for having committed imaginary atrocities, it offends everyone who has a sense of basic human decency.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 11:36 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
What I hope happens is more information and education into the Palestine/Israel issue and a more balanced look into the solutions with everybody wanting a common solution good for all sides.

It is impossible to get "more" balanced when you have already achieved 100% balance.

How do you propose making Palestinians and progressive neonazis agree to a solution that allows Israel to exist?


revelette3 wrote:
But, dreams are dreams, not reality.
We can at least be more supportive of the UN and go back to objecting to more Jewish settlements being built.

We'll drop our support for support for unilateral Israeli actions when the UN and EU drop their support for unilateral Palestinian actions.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:16 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
As a result, Dionne pleads with moderates and progressives to see one another as allies who have far more in common than they might think.


I find it sickening that leftist twitterverse, infatuated with itself and overdosed with purity, stubbornly underestimates the damage done to USAmerican cultural and political institutions by the party of Trump, and haughtily and dismissively writes off large numbers of Democrats and moderate independents as being "Republican-lite".

They'd prefer four more years of Trump over a Biden — hell, even a Warren — administration. (Along with other a bomb-throwing radicals in college, we really thought a Hitler would be good for the USA because repression would "sharpen the contradictions" and radicalize the masses.) We can only hope that the electronic platform which amplifies their message has also grossly and inaccurately inflated their numbers and their strategic importance.
Brand X
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:28 pm
@hightor,
Carville is down with that sentiment.

“We’re losing our damn minds”: James Carville unloads on the Democratic Party
Why the longtime Democratic strategist is “scared to death” of the 2020 election.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:41 pm
Henry Louis Gates wrote:
I want to say this right, because I haven’t said this to anybody: Among all the candidates, the person who I believe could stand toe-to-toe, strongest and longest with Donald Trump is Mike Bloomberg. (...) I know Mike Bloomberg socially. Every summer I go to a dinner on Martha’s Vineyard with Mike Bloomberg. I’ve argued with him about policies that I didn’t like. He is enormously intelligent and capable. When he was mayor, I watched him. He could wear it lightly. It’s not like Jimmy Carter with the weight of the world on him. I think that he’s tough, and I think he could take on the bully Donald Trump. Very few people can stand up to a bully. Mike’s got some bully in him. I think he’s good.

nytmag
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:45 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Henry Louis Gates

The NYT and the guy who helped Obama start his war on the police. That is a pair to draw to.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:58 pm
@coldjoint,
That's so simplistic. How would you feel if you were arrested trying to enter your own home?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 02:19 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
That's so simplistic. How would you feel if you were arrested trying to enter your own home?

If the cop thought I was breaking in I would be fine with it and would have the patience to straighten it out, not discredit someone for doing their job.
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 02:33 pm
@Brand X,
I actually miss James Carville regardless of past rancor, we seem to be on the same side now.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:03 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:

If the cop thought I was breaking in I would be fine with it and would have the patience to straighten it out, not discredit someone for doing their job.

Nice sentiments...have you had a similar experience in real life or are you just attempting to appear reasonable? I think it would be a very frustrating situation, especially when the racial dimension is added to the mix.

Here, it's worth reading. Someone else may find it valuable even if you don't:

Quote:
Was conciliatory thinking along the lines of “racists aren’t ready for that” in your head in 2009 when you were dealing with the incident with the Cambridge police? Oh, yeah. President Obama made an innocent comment that the arrest was stupid, which it was. Then all of a sudden all these racists are beating up on him. My whole attitude was channeled through the desire to protect our first black president. But there was another motivation. I thought that it would be hubristic and dishonest if I compared what happened to me to what happens to black people in the inner city. I thought, If I didn’t have the protections of class and status —

The outcome would’ve been very different. Right. When the policeman, Sgt. Crowley, and I met, I said, “Why did you arrest me?” He said, “I was afraid that I wasn’t going to be able to go home to my wife, because I was convinced that your partner was upstairs and he was going to come down and blow me away.” He told me he had gotten a call: “Two black guys are breaking into this house.” One of them answers the door — me — when he rang the bell, and I’m stepping over suitcases, because I’d just come back from a trip. Unbeknown to me, one pattern of thievery is bringing empty suitcases to a house. So the officer saw a black face, he saw the suitcases: That’s part of a profile. I was what Barbara Johnson calls “an already-read text.” He couldn’t hear me, couldn’t see me. Well, that might be related to police excesses and abuses, but it’s a far end of the scale, and I was able to reverse what happened to me, unlike an Eric Garner. So my whole reaction to my arrest was determined by two things: The attacks on President Obama and my own determination not to claim too much for my own victimization.

Then when you actually had the “beer summit,” did President Obama say anything helpful, or was that whole thing pro forma?
Oh, that’s interesting. (...) Anyway, we got to the White House, and we and Sgt. Crowley’s family all got to the library at the same time. I walked over to Sgt. Crowley. He had his kids there, and I said to them: “Hi, I’m Professor Gates. Hope you come to Harvard one day. Maybe you’ll take one of my classes.” Then I said to him, “Can I have a word with you?” He and I went off and did the beer summit ourselves. I said, “Look, I don’t know about you, man, but I just want this to go away.” He goes, “This is a nightmare.” I said to him: “The president has come under attack. Racism’s coming out of the floor. I’m sure you’re a decent person. I forgive you. Let’s move on.” He goes, “That would be the best thing that could happen.” I said, “Maybe we could find a way to lecture about it.” He laughed and said, “Anything I can do to get off the beat.” I realized he was funny. I think that gay people have a sense of who’s homophobic. I think that Jewish people have a sense of who’s anti-Semitic. I definitely think black people — I could walk out there and tell you, “That [expletive] is a racist.”

And you’re saying you didn’t get that vibe from Sgt. Crowley?
I didn’t get that vibe from him. When we were called into the Oval Office, I said to the president, “Mr. President, we had a great conversation in the library.” He said, “Oh, it sounds like it’s all settled.” The actual beer summit was us doing small talk.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:09 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
especially when the racial dimension is added to the mix.

The racial dimension was added. The situation had nothing to do with color. It looked like he was breaking in. Obama jumped on it because it was divisive and that was his specialty.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:22 pm
Iowa caucuses results

99.94% reporting

Pete Buttigieg: 13 out of 41 delegates

Bernie Sanders: 12 out of 41 delegates

Elizabeth Warren: 8 out of 41 delegates

Joe Biden: 6 out of 41 delegates

Amy Klobuchar: 1 out of 41 delegates

Still one delegate left to allocate. Looks like Warren County is the place that is still not entirely counted.

https://www.usatoday.com/elections/results/primaries/democratic/iowa/
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 04:13 pm
@coldjoint,
You and I are usually on the same page but I have to disagree with you here. What Obama said was not divisive. It was the anti-Obama people that jumped on it and turned it from a minor mix-up into a toxic racial issue for political purposes.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 04:49 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

You and I are usually on the same page


I’d never noticed. Guess I need to read more carefully.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 05:44 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
a minor mix-up into a toxic racial issue for political purposes.

It is not a minor mix up when Obama said the police acted stupidly to the nation. The man was doing his job, there was nothing stupid about it.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 05:45 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Guess I need to read more carefully.

Right, I would like to say again, but.....
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 04:13 am
My god. So that’s what an unbiased debate is like! Kudos to ABC. Their panel was diverse, their journalists actually deserved respect, and the questions were substantial.

Of course, over on the nuthouse channel, #ChrisMatthews made an ape if himself trying to equate Bern with mass executions in Central Park. The latest Hillary talking point, I’m sure.

So, a fun night.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 04:34 am
Steyer didn’t buy his way into the race to win the presidency, he did it to buddy up with Bernie. He’s so silly.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 09:28 am
I was impressed with Amy Klobuchar the most. I honestly don't understand why she isn't higher in the polls. She's quick and able to run with the big runners any day of the week. Not to mention, she doesn't sound like a broken record.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 09:38 am
@revelette3,
People like broken records when your life depends on what you’re hearing not changing.

Ask Liz and Biden what happens when you change your tune.

Amy’s low because she’s a Republican. Just in the wrong primary. I did appreciate her cutting ass on #HoldTheMayo tho!
 

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