oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2020 09:55 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Youre spouting nonsemse as usual. Rabif opinion masquerading as fact.

You cannot provide any examples of anything that coldjoint is wrong about either.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 02:30 am
Bernie and crew steamrolling to victory

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/02/06/metro/bernie-sanders-is-up-haters-are-down/?outputType=amp&event=event25&__twitter_impression=true

Senator Bernie Sanders is once again on top.

Yes, he’s 78. Yes, he’s a Democratic Socialist. OK, so he had a heart attack five months ago.

His supporters just don’t care.

“So what? He’s got plenty of energy,” said Susan Flanigan, a Hampton, N.H., resident who is supporting Sanders. Of course, she has weighed the other candidates, but she doesn’t think the former mayor of South Bend, Ind., Pete Buttigieg, or former vice president Joe Biden could win against Trump. It also doesn’t hurt that she had three separate Sanders volunteers knock on her door recently.

“I’ve had nobody else ring the bell,” she said.


Nearly tied with Buttigieg in Iowa, Sanders is ahead in the New Hampshire polls. He might seem an unlikely front-runner for what Democrats regularly describe as the most important election of their lifetimes, but his supporters, who may catapult him to victory, see him simply as the best candidate to beat Trump. They say he is consistent and authentic and a champion for the little people. (It’s not lost on anyone that those attributes echo another recent anti-establishment candidate, who is now living in the White House.)

The senator is “shaking his fist at what [voters] believe is an unfair system,” said Wayne Lesperance, a political science professor at New England College in Henniker, N.H. "Government doesn’t serve them, and folks in Washington aren’t listening to them. That’s the secret sauce to the Sanders campaign.”

The continued enthusiasm at his campaign events is palpable.

“He’s incredibly genuine. He’s a real human,” said Amy McNair, 48, at an event in Derry Wednesday morning. McNair first fell in love with Sanders during the 2016 primary and said that although she liked other candidates, "Bernie still comes on top for me.”

Though the Derry rally took place on a weekday morning, every seat in the historic opera house was filled, and most of those in the rickety balcony, too. Supporters sported a motley collection of Sanders paraphernalia: T-shirts, stickers, a canvas tote bag with a rainbow array of bald Bernie silhouettes. When Sanders asked members of the audience how much their current health insurance deductibles were, the crowd enthusiastically participated, shouting, “$4,500! $6,000!”


The campaign has backed up its fundamental economic message with a massive ground game in New Hampshire, boasting 17 field offices and 150 staffers. Last weekend, 14,000 volunteers knocked on doors for the senator, according to the campaign.

The outreach makes a difference.

Jodi Newell, 39, considered casting her vote for Elizabeth Warren or Tulsi Gabbard. But she felt Sanders was more connected to what was going on with people like her. She had lost her children’s father to an overdose, and she was particularly moved when the Sanders campaign organized a forum where Newell and others talked about their experiences with the opioid crisis. The campaign dispatched two top surrogates, Susan Sarandon and Nina Turner, to join the conversation.

“They’re really trying to talk to the people going through it," Newell said.

But Sanders skeptics are more worried than ever. First, Sanders’ promise that he can bring a surge of new voters into the process didn’t pan out in Iowa. Participation rates were nowhere near the record-high numbers that Barack Obama helped inspire in 2008.

“The coverage and the polling of Bernie Sanders has not met reality,” said Mary Anne Marsh, a Boston Democratic strategist.


Critics add that his progressive policies — Medicare for All, free universal child care, the cancellation of student debt — might turn off the moderates and disaffected Republicans the party needs to win in November.

“We got to get relevant. This is all something that is not working the way that it needs to work," said longtime Democratic strategist James Carville on MSNBC after the Iowa caucuses, expressing his alarm about how well Sanders was doing. "Do we want to be an ideological cult, or do we want to have a majoritarian instinct?”

It’s not that Sanders’ supporters are blind to those arguments against him. They’ve heard them. They’ve considered them. And they’ve chosen the snowy-haired Vermont independent anyway.

“I thought Hillary was more electable," said Nikki Withrow, 45, who voted for Clinton in the 2016 primary and now supports Bernie. "And she wasn’t.”
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:03 am
https://www.newsweek.com/majority-democratic-voters-more-likely-vote-bernie-sanders-after-iowa-caucuses-new-poll-1486148?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Excerpt
The majority of Democratic voters nationwide are "more likely" to vote for Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders in the aftermath of the Iowa caucuses, while significantly less said the same about former Indiana mayor Pete Buttigieg, according to new polling data.

A full 52 percent of respondents to the Morning Consult survey, which was released Thursday, said they were leaning more toward backing Sanders for the Democratic nomination following Iowa's Monday caucuses. Of those, 29 percent said they were "much more likely," while 23 percent said they were "somewhat more likely."

Despite performing poorly in Iowa, former Vice President Joe Biden came in second in the polling, with 48 percent saying they were more likely to vote for him. Buttigieg, who prematurely declared he was "victorious" in Iowa, saw significantly less enthusiasm, with just 38 percent saying they were more likely to back him. Of those respondents, only 14 percent said they were "much more likely" to vote for the former South Bend, Indiana, mayor.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:50 am
@Lash,
Bernie Could Win the Nomination. Should We Be Afraid?

The establishment doesn’t have the credibility to stop the surging Sanders movement.

By Michelle Goldberg, Opinion Columnist, The New York Times, Jan. 27, 2020

A half-hour before a Bernie Sanders rally on Saturday night in Iowa, a line snaked around the nearly 900-seat Ames City Auditorium, but no one else was being let in: The theater was full.

Inside, the Grammy-winning indie rock band Portugal. The Man was playing. Rows of people were assembled on risers behind the musicians, waving Bernie signs. Sanders fans, most of them young, crowded the aisles; The Iowa State Daily reported that 1,400 people had crammed into the auditorium, with another 400 in an overflow room. The air buzzed with the intoxicating collective energy unique to social movements on the rise.

Sanders has a reputation for focusing on class to the exclusion of all else; as David Frum put it in The Atlantic, “‘Left but not woke’ is the Bernie Sanders brand.” On the ground in Iowa, however, it is not the brand of his campaign. Sanders isn’t just running the most economically left campaign; he’s running the most unapologetically left campaign, period. And it’s surging, with Sanders leading in recent polls in both Iowaand New Hampshire.

It’s no longer far-fetched to think that he could be the Democratic nominee.

When the band was done, three Indigenous women took the stage to pay respects to the Native Americans forced off the land that became Iowa. The filmmaker Michael Moore came on and described Donald Trump as the endpoint of a country founded “on genocide and built on the backs of slaves.” (The next day, at a campaign stop in Perry, Moore called women’s underrepresentation in Congress a form of “gender apartheid.”) Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez spoke, saying, “I’m here because Senator Sanders has actually committed to breaking up ICE.”

There are no moral or intellectual comparisons between Sanders and Trump, but there are structural similarities between the Sanders campaign and the one Trump ran in 2016. Trump thrilled conservatives with his unembarrassed embrace of far-right figures disdained by mainstream Republicans. He inspired alienated men on the internet to mobilize behind him. Party elites wanted to stop him, but his solid core of support allowed him to romp through a fractured field.

The parallels with Sanders are obvious. He’s running a campaign steeped in the ethos of an anti-establishment left, and benefiting from elite Democrats’ failure to coalesce around someone else. He has an enormous online following, with legions of trolls intimidating Democrats who seem to stand in their way. An outsider who long refused to join the party whose nomination he’s seeking, he appeals to people who distrust most political institutions, the mainstream media very much included.

Obviously, Trump won, so there’s something to be said for aping some of his strategies. But the Sanders juggernaut still scares me. As Ezra Klein recently pointed out in The New York Times, the brute demographics of American politics make Democrats more electorally dependent on centrists than Republicans are.

Right now, several polls show Sanders beating Trump, and a few show him beating Trump in some swing statesby more than anyone else. Still, I’m terrified that those numbers won’t survive endless attack ads about Sanders’s radical past.

There will most likely be spots showing the 1985 Sandinista rally Sanders attended in Nicaragua, with the crowd chanting, “Here There and Everywhere/ The Yankee Will Die.” The country will see Sanders, speaking after a trip to the Soviet Union, effusively praising its state-sponsored culture.

The economic inequities that Sanders rails against are very real, but most Americans — including most Democrats — say the economy is good, and a fortune would be spent to convince them that Sanders would crash it. Socialism may be newly current among the young, but polls suggest that it’s still anathema to the old.

But Sanders supporters have plenty of reasons to discount these anxieties. Polls are on their side. Their movement feels exhilarating, the fulfillment of their most fervent political hopes in view. Centrist predictions about which candidates are viable have failed over and over again.

“We keep hearing this argument about electability, or nominating safe candidates, and we keep losing,” said Derek Eadon, a 36-year-old former chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party who endorsed Sanders this month.

Eadon, who was previously with Julián Castro’s campaign, didn’t take Sanders seriously in 2016. Two things changed since then. A painful nerve disease forced Eadon to become intimate with the absurdist horror of America’s health care system. And he said he saw Sanders expanding the electorate. “His ability to keep bringing in new people, and people that have not been involved before, is just such a strength electorally,” said Eadon.

This is the paradox helping to fuel Sanders’s rise: The more he attracts people who are heedless of traditional electability concerns, the more electable he looks.

Last week, Dalhi Myers, a conservative-leaning African-American elected official in South Carolina, switched her support from Joe Biden to Sanders. Despite her affection for Biden, Myers, a member of the Richland County Council, had grown concerned by what she saw as an absence of grass-roots enthusiasm for him. “I look at the Sanders campaign and what they’re doing to motivate people on the ground, and it’s working,” she told me.

No one knows if all this excitement will translate into the votes Democrats need. And no one knows if Democrats can win without it.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 04:01 am
@Olivier5,
The DNC has already changed one significant rule and they’re threatening to change another.

Suddenly, you can buy your way into the debate stage, helping Republican oligarch Bloomberg buy the D nomination. The establishment is worried that this corruption won’t be enough to suppress our votes, so they are now discussing breaking their agreement not to cheat us with superdelegates during the first round.

Add to that Hillary Clinton popping her Trump-loving head up every week to spew lies about Bernie.

They’re doing everything they can to suppress democracy. But, they’ll pay dearly for it.

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 04:29 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Progressives are weary, however, that Bloomberg continues to ride outside the debate spotlight without having his professional and political career examined by other candidates on a national stage.

As Politico now reports, liberals in the Democratic Party are begging the DNC to alter debate rules and allow Bloomberg to have a podium where, they believe, he can be torn down under the microscope:

Progressive allies of Elizabeth Warren have approached the Democratic National Committee to lobby for an unusual cause: including billionaire Mike Bloomberg in upcoming presidential primary debates.

The move, described to POLITICO by a co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, reflects the desire of liberal activists to pin down the former New York mayor, who has avoided verbal combat with his opponents by waging a self-funded campaign that plays by its own rules. But the entreaty also speaks to progressives’ growing unease with Bloomberg’s relative success: After spending hundreds of millions of dollars, he has vaulted into double digits in national polls and amassed a giant staff of A-level operatives.

His rise is now stirring growing anxieties among some of his biggest detractors, who maintain that his white knight pledges should not insulate him from critiques and what they consider a standard vetting process.

“He has a long history of big-money self-promotion, but he wants to play senior statesmen and try to get people to believe he’s just taking one for the team,” said Zephyr Teachout, a law professor who has run for statewide office in New York and is aligned with Bernie Sanders.

“But he’s spending hundreds of millions because he wants the most powerful job in the world, and he needs the full treatment,” she added, pointing to his positions on foreign policy and Social Security and his long mayoral record.

source
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 07:03 am
I think he needs to be on stage to face the questions like everyone else, I don't agree with how he got there.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 07:06 am
@Brand X,
Fairness is the most important aspect of the rules change to me. A lot of people got knocked off by the rules—an oligarch pays off the DNC, and the rules were changed.

I hate how transparently corrupt this country is.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 07:19 am
@Brand X,
Quote:
...I don't agree with how he got there.

I think he got there by picking up considerable support in opinion polls. Steyer is spending pretty lavishly but doesn't seem to be attracting prospective voters so I think the money factor may be overstated.
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 07:28 am
@hightor,
Funny, that. Steyer was hardest on the impeach band wagon.

Edit: And long before running for pres he had a giant email campaign for impeachment which he launched off of, probably abusing email lists.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 08:52 am
Warren debacle with WOC staffers is blowing up.
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/02/06/elizabeth-warren-campaign-nevada-111595?__twitter_impression=true
Excerpt
A half-dozen women of color have departed Elizabeth Warren’s Nevada campaign in the run-up to the state’s caucuses with complaints of a toxic work environment in which minorities felt tokenized and senior leadership was at loggerheads.

The six staffers have left the roughly 70-person Nevada team since November, during a critical stretch of the race. Three of them said they felt marginalized by the campaign, a situation they said didn’t change or worsened after they took their concerns to their superiors or to human resources staff.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:10 am
Quote:
Although I’m a pessimist by nature, deep down I think I always believed that the Republic would survive Donald Trump.

The majority of Americans have never accepted him, and his ascendancy fueled a nationwide civic awakening, starting with the Women’s March and proceeding through airport protests, health care town halls and finally the midterms. It’s been devastating to see how quickly so many American institutions have been corrupted — the Department of Justice turned into an engine of Trump’s paranoid vendettas, the State Department purged of nonpartisan professionals, evidence of Trump’s Ukraine extortion scheme buried by his Senate lackeys. It’s outrageous that the country’s being forced to endure four full years of lawless kakistocracy, but surely, I thought, the majority would put an end to it in the next election.

But now that election is approaching, and the debacle of the Iowa caucuses only highlights how the Democratic Party is threatening to fracture. In its aftermath, we’re left with a national race led by two very old and extraordinarily risky general election candidates whose weaknesses were underscored by Iowa’s results, muddled as they were.

Bernie Sanders’s supporters have argued that he can expand the electorate to make up for the suburban moderates he’s likely to lose, moderates who were, incidentally, responsible for many of the gains Democrats made in 2018. But while Sanders claimed a popular vote victory in Iowa, there was no surge in voter turnout since the last election, and an NBC News entrance poll showed that the number of first-time caucusers actually went down.

Sanders still has the advantage of energy and ardor; young people are overwhelmingly on his side, and his campaign will be carried along by the same sort of ebullient cultural ferment as Barack Obama’s. (When the pop megastar Ariana Grande met Sanders in November, she wrote on Twitter, “I will never smile this hard again.”) I try to talk myself into believing that his passionate base, combined with a polarized electorate, will be enough. Still, with the survival of American democracy at stake, it seems like a wild gamble for Democrats to turn the fight against Trump into a referendum on Democratic socialism at a time when Americans’ personal economic satisfaction is at a record high.

Here’s the place for disclosure: My husband is consulting for Elizabeth Warren, the candidate I believe in more than any other. But I recognize that Warren has electability challenges of her own, and the truth is I’d be fine with any nominee who could generate enthusiasm without scaring suburbanites, if I could only see who that was.

I’m not the only one feeling panicked. The recent rush of mayoral endorsements for Michael Bloomberg is partly just a function of the money he’s poured into cities through his philanthropic work, but it also indicates a worrying lack of confidence in the existing field.


nyt
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:12 am
@Lash,
Quote:
And, Netanyahu’s ire is a badge of honor. He’s a craven genocidist. Bernie’s in the right side I’d the Zionist/Palestinian issue.
Yup. Another reminder of how sociopaths can rise to power.

If Sanders was to gain the nomination then win the general while Dems take House and Senate, that could provide an opportunity for a reconfiguration of Israeli politics. This is a very optimistic scenario but interesting to consider.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:19 am
@oralloy,
Blahblahblah as always
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:31 am
EJ Dionne is one of my favorite political writers. An extremist he is not. And what he argues in this book is absolutely correct. The modern right has evolved into something which isn't merely valueless, it is now a seriously destructive and dangerous political movement.
Quote:
CODE RED
How Progressives and Moderates Can Unite to Save Our Country
By E. J. Dionne Jr.

E. J. Dionne Jr. has spent a career searching for common ground among opposing groups, in the hope that it can become the foundation of a politics of consensus. In books like “Why Americans Hate Politics” (1991) and “Our Divided Political Heart” (2012), he tried to chart a course between left and right, suggesting that if we peer across the political divide with clearer eyes and more open minds, we can begin to build a postpolarization politics.

As part of this endeavor, he has often chided the right for its mounting extremism, but he never wrote it off. Which is why Dionne’s latest book should send our alarm bells shrieking. Though written in the same patient, even soothing, voice as his earlier works, the narrowed scope of “Code Red: How Progressives and Moderates Can Unite to Save Our Country” shows how much his view of politics has changed. The right barely factors into this new bridge-building project. Conservatives are, for all intents and purposes, a lost cause.

This means “Code Red” is not yet another call for bipartisanship (thank goodness). Nor is it a plea for centrism, which in an earlier era had been a defining feature of Dionne’s work. Here he has abandoned the idea of a center poised between left and right. “The political center cannot be defined as a halfway point between Democrats and a Republican Party that has veered far to the right,” Dionne writes. Instead it is something to be negotiated within the Democratic Party.

As a result, Dionne pleads with moderates and progressives to see one another as allies who have far more in common than they might think. And while his past calls for political unity seem to have failed, there’s reason to hope this one might succeed. The rise of Donald Trump and the radicalization of the right have been unifying forces for moderates and progressives. While the two factions disagree sharply on proposals like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, they share a distress and disgust with the Trump presidency and the growing right-wing extremism that preceded it...
NYT

blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:41 am
Revenge. It's the Mafia boss, sociopath bully characteristic at the center of Trump's personality.
Quote:
Trump Hails Acquittal and Lashes Out at His ‘Evil’ and ‘Corrupt’ Opponents
As President Trump renewed his attacks on Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Democrats, his press secretary threatened payback against them.
NYT

It is deeply depressing that someone like Trump would be in office and would be behaving as he does every day, for sure. But more depressing to me is how his personality type can pull together a significant contingent of eager brown-shirt supporters who revel in Trump's immorality and cruelty. That's scary.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 10:49 am
@MontereyJack,
Another post where you cannot back up any of your claims.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 11:00 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Quote:
And, Netanyahu's ire is a badge of honor. He's a craven genocidist. Bernie's in the right side I'd the Zionist/Palestinian issue.

Yup.

Oh look. Blatham is a neonazi alongside all of his other negative traits.

Why am I not surprised?


blatham wrote:
If Sanders was to gain the nomination then win the general while Dems take House and Senate, that could provide an opportunity for a reconfiguration of Israeli politics. This is a very optimistic scenario but interesting to consider.

Sorry Adolf, but if the US were to become a neonazi power, Israel would just buy their weapons from China and Russia.

Although that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for Israel. The US frequently pressures Israel against taking justified actions to defend themselves from Palestinians. China and Russia will not do that.

It would be a big step backwards for the US though if neonazis were to take over the country. We fought against the Nazis back in WWII.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 11:14 am
@blatham,
Quote:
This is a very optimistic scenario but interesting to consider.


Very true a good part of the democrat/liberal base is the Jewish community. Some of them are not Zionist, but a lot of them are and we can't afford to alienate that whole base of support.

What I hope happens is more information and education into the Palestine/Israel issue and a more balanced look into the solutions with everybody wanting a common solution good for all sides. But, dreams are dreams, not reality.

We can at least be more supportive of the UN and go back to objecting to more Jewish settlements being built.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 11:27 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
Some of them are not Zionist, but a lot of them are and we can't afford to alienate that whole base of support.
Back in the days of Abuzz, there were quite a few aggressive zionist radicals posting. I recall one conversation where the fellow I was arguing with stated explicitly that "Anything Israel does or might do is morally proper". That contingent has only become more entrenched in their politics. They are going to be offended with any criticism of Israeli policies, particularly as regards settlement. But they aren't voting for people on the left either there or in the US. So to hell with them.
 

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