hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:18 am
Quote:
While the news media has been focused on the “spat” between Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, something much more serious has been taking place between the Sanders campaign and Joe Biden. Not to sugarcoat it: The Sanders campaign has flat-out lied about things Biden said in 2018 about Social Security, and it has refused to admit the falsehood.

(...)

There has always been an ugly edge to some of Sanders’s support, a faction of followers who denounce anyone raising questions about his positions — even Warren! — as a corrupt capitalist shill.

nyt/krugman
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:40 am
@hightor,
Sanders apologizes to Biden for supporter’s op-ed alleging corruption
Quote:
Sen. Bernie Sanders apologized to Joe Biden late Monday for an op-ed a prominent supporter wrote accusing the former vice president of having a “big corruption problem,” and Sanders urged his backers to exercise civility on the heels of heated disputes with his rivals.

In an interview with CBS News, Sanders (I-Vt.) expressed contrition for the op-ed, which was written by law professor Zephyr Teachout for the Guardian newspaper and was promoted by the Sanders campaign in a newsletter. Teachout endorsed Sanders last year, and his campaign touted her support.

“It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way. And I’m sorry that that op-ed appeared,” Sanders said in the interview. A Sanders campaign spokesman confirmed his comments.
[...]
It is rare for candidates to apologize for their actions or the activities of their supporters, particularly with the Iowa caucuses happening so soon, on Feb. 3.

The remarks marked at least a temporary de-escalation between two rivals who sit at or near the top of the polls and who had grown increasingly hostile to each other in recent days. Sanders also appeared keen on calming tensions with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.); the two walked arm-in-arm at a Martin Luther King Jr. Day event in South Carolina six days after an explosive post-debate confrontation centering on a private conversation about gender and elections.

It was also a shift in tone for the Democratic race, which just 24 hours earlier had reached new levels of contentiousness. With President Trump’s impeachment trial set to begin in earnest in the Senate this week, some Democrats have been hoping the party will project more unity.

Some Sanders supporters have aggressively criticized Biden and Warren on social media. Sanders told CBS he did not approve of personal attacks. “If anyone knows me, what I believe is we need a serious debate in this country on issues. We don’t need to demonize people who may disagree with us,” he said.
... ... ...
Well, Sanders doesn't approve ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I red that OpEd by Teachout, it was published in the Guardian. I thought it made a good case that Biden is primarily interested in providing what his donors want.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:04 am
We’ve got 11 months to go before the general. How man time have we already seen this:
A smear is made by a Bernie supporter.
It stays in the news cycle for a few days.
Bernie finally makes a weak apology and says it doesn’t represent his views.
Rinse and repeat.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:14 am
When a centrist smears Sanders on social media or classic media, which happens every other milisecond, nobody even cares to apologize...
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:20 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Okay so you concede that progress is possible but you're generally pessimistic about human nature. That may be because you hang around with narrow-minded republicans too much. Normal human beings are much better.


No it's simply that I noted the fact that history reveals that human nature hasn't changed in any appreciable way, and the historical record of the modern era doesn't reveal any real improvement in the human condition, in the last few millennia. Moreover, most of the human suffering in the current era has come at the hands of self-styled progressive reformers bent on creating new utopias, who ended up creating only poverty and tyranny.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:24 am
@Olivier5,
If those “centrist” smears aren’t done in press releases, but only in tweets and FB posts, they kind of don’t have the same significance.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:28 am
@snood,
There are done in traditional media as well: in press and TV.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:40 am
@georgeob1,
I don't see any reason we should welcome a change in human nature, or work towards it. That sounds like eugenics and/or religious thinking. For me, human nature is the results of millions of years of evolution. It is changing at a slow, Darwinian pace, and there's no reason for politicians to get involved in it.

Politics are about the way we organize society, not about how to change human nature.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 09:59 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Moreover, most of the human suffering in the current era has come at the hands of self-styled progressive reformers bent on creating new utopias, who ended up creating only poverty and tyranny.

I pretty much share your assessment of human nature but I'll quibble about the bolded word. A substantial amount of the human suffering inflicted by oppressive governments still originates from tribal conflict, ethnic and religious strife, misappropriation of resources, and simple old-fashioned authoritarianism with no agenda other than greed. Given the shortcomings of human nature, how do we determine when specific social problems are caused by attempts at political reform and when the cause is organic to our species? Selectively indicting progressives or socialists for seeking to ameliorate the worst effects of economic exploitation seems one-sided. It's not as if they destroyed a preexisting utopia by any means. Any and all political systems are subject to decay over time as a result of our inability to foresee the consequences of our actions or marshal the resources necessary to address emerging problems at an early stage. As Emerson said, "things are in the saddle and ride mankind".
Brand X
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:00 am
Clinton says 'nobody likes' Sanders and won't commit to backing him if he's the Democratic nominee

'Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton blasts Sen. Bernie Sanders in a new documentary, saying "nobody likes him" and declining in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter to say whether she would endorse and campaign for him if he's the Democratic 2020 nominee.

"He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done," Clinton says in the film, according to The Hollywood Reporter. "He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it."
The comments in the documentary are aimed directly at his core campaign appeal -- that he's a political outsider pitching revolutionary change.'

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-documentary/index.html
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:07 am
@Brand X,
Hillary Clinton says "nobody likes Sanders" ???!!!!

Could there possibly be a more vivid example of pot kettle?
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:10 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Could there possibly be a more vivid example of pot kettle?

I'd call it a vivid example of political hyperbole. Both politicians have their fans and their detractors.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:12 am
@Brand X,
I have to laugh. We all knew she and her disgusting toadies preferred trump to Bernie, but I’m surprised she’s on record with it. It’s amazingly satisfying to me for her to be outed finally.

More so, each stab at Bern (Warren, NYT) has resulted in either astronomical donations, drops in polling support, or vociferous, widespread pushback.

We’ll see how this stupid lie from Hillary shakes out. I hope it doesn’t result in her responsibility for Trump’s second term.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:13 am
@georgeob1,
Laughing.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
He must have the worst aids and volunteers, they always going behind him and stating things of which he doesn't approve--a couple of days later. Wonder what his cabinet would be like? I guess anyone caught up in some infraction unbeknownst to him he or she can expect to be thrown under the bus.
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:18 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Hillary Clinton says "nobody likes Sanders" ???!!!!

Could there possibly be a more vivid example of pot kettle?

Odd sort of notion given that:

Quote:
[In Gallup polling] The high mark for most appearances at number 1, the most admired woman in the world, belongs to Hillary Clinton
wikipedia

and given that Clinton had nearly 3 million more votes from American citizens than Trump in the last election.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:20 am
@Brand X,
Brand X wrote:

"He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done," Clinton says in the film, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Regardless of how you regard Clinton, this statement is hard to refute and was my big concern with Sanders in 2016. I recall seeing a 2012 ranking of senator effectiveness based on a variety of metrics. Clinton as a senator was above average. Sanders was in last place, so low that is looked like a statistical outlier. This particular study was done before either was running for President. The reality is that Sanders hasn't been very effective in his long years in office. He gets lots of credit for bringing the Democratic Party left and it needed some of that, but many times the revolutionaries make poor leaders.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:21 am
@hightor,
That's axiomatic, but, I believe, misses the point. Bernie has maintained a cadre of very dedicated followers since the 2016 election: a fact which appears to be largely the result of the dedicated authenticity and candor he projects. I certainly don't agree with his policy proposals, or believe he is either capable of making them work, or winning a Presidential election. However I do recognized the loyalty he is able to excite among a large minority of Democrat voters - even in the face of competition from other Democrat candidates advocating a similar platform..

In contrast My strong impression is that Hillary had an enduring "likeability" problem throughout the Clinton era, one that continues today. She projects needless abrasiveness, self promotion and contempt for those who don't support her. Not very likeable characteristics, and I believe that contributed significantly to her defeat in 2016.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 10:34 am
@Brand X,
This dem primaries thing started nice, but it's now descending into total chaos, complete with the loser of 2016 explaining others how to lose again this time around by hating their very own self and being very afraid of their own shadow...

A bunch of mealy-mouthed, divided, change-adverse incrementalists will never beat Trump. Oh well... Perhaps the US democracy is not worth saving after all.
 

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