coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 09:47 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
That's right, it's not what MJ said. it's what you said.

Look back at the posts, it is exactly what he said.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 10:25 pm
@coldjoint,
Stop being disingenuous, That's your gloss on what I said, not the truth. Trump asked for Russian help and he got it. he certainly was in no position to order them. He's kowtowed to putin every chance he gets. Ever wonder why there's no transcripts of his meetings with putin, why he's gone to such extremes to make sure nothing gets out to the point where he didn't use an America transator, just the Russian one. eptuneblue's right.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 11:31 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Stop being disingenuous

Stop being dumb.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 05:18 am
@coldjoint,
so stop being disingenuous.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 05:25 am
So, here we have some questions about Elizabeth Warren:

Elizabeth Warren Wants to Lose Your Vote

Those with plans for everything prove only that they can’t be trusted to plan for anything.

Quote:
A decade ago, it was conventional wisdom that the world would soon start running low on oil and that the United States would henceforth be at the mercy of the inexorable trend. Then the fracking revolution came about, and the U.S. resumed its long-lost place as the world’s No. 1 oil and natural gas producer.

The result: lower oil prices for American consumers, less dependence on petrodespots, a dramatic shift from coal to natural gas for electricity generation (with concomitant benefits in carbon emissions), and hundreds of thousands of working-class jobs, including tens of thousands in swing states like Colorado and Pennsylvania.

Elizabeth Warren wants to kill all this.

You don’t have to think that fracking is an unalloyed blessing — much less deny that tough safety standards are necessary — to acknowledge its benefits. You might also argue that curbs on oil and gas production are needed both to preserve the environment and accelerate a transition to renewables. Fine.

Yet it takes a peculiar sort of political audacity to pledge, as the Massachusetts senator did last month, to “ban fracking — everywhere.” Warren also favors a ban on fossil-fuel exports — another U.S. industry that has seen dramatic growth in recent years — and a “total moratorium” on new fossil fuel leases on federal lands, which generate billions every year in federal and state tax revenue.

American Indian tribes also got about $1 billion from those leases in 2018. Isn’t the Warren campaign supposed to be about sticking it to richer Americans instead of poorer ones?

That’s a question that would-be Warren supporters might ask a little more insistently as she approaches front-runner status.

Take health care. As an ethical matter, it may be defensible for Warren to argue that Medicare for All is fairer than the current system. As an economic matter, she could be right that overall costs will come down under her scheme. And as a political matter, it isn’t surprising that she has been less than forthright about the middle-class tax increases her plan will require.

But what about the fact that Warren isn’t merely proposing a dramatic change in the way 170 million or so Americans obtain health insurance? She is advocating the abolition of an entire industry, one that employs approximately 550,000 people. Whatever one thinks of health-insurance companies (and most Americans seem satisfied with the coverage they have), isn’t it worth wondering what these half-million workers might do with themselves after being put out of work — or, as voters, what they might think of Warren’s designs for their future?

Then there’s big tech, another industry Warren doesn’t like and promises to “break up” by turning Facebook, Amazon and Google into regulated utilities. For this task, involving some 800,000 workers and companies with about $500 billion in revenues, she has … a 1,700-word plan.

One wonders what Warren thinks might happen when things don’t work out. Industries aren’t assemblages of Lego blocks that can be taken apart and reassembled according to a clever new design. They are complex and evolving ecosystems, organized around scores of institutions, hundreds of laws, thousands of personalities, millions of relationships, and a potentially limitless number of ideas.

What will happen to the real human beings whose lives and careers will be upended or derailed while the mandarins of the Warren administration try to figure things out? Will President Warren have contingency plans for her ever-proliferating plans when — as they inevitably will — things don’t go according to plan?

Of course she won’t. She won’t because she can’t; she can’t because the central flaw of every economic plan is the plan itself. That’s the lesson of the 20th century, and it’s why Warren’s critics aren’t totally off the mark in accusing her of being a socialist — not in intent, but in mentality. Those with plans for everything prove only that they can’t be trusted to plan for anything.

Voters may not yet see this, which is why Warren has risen in the polls. But they will, eventually, especially when they notice what the senator’s plans entail for them. It’s one thing for a Democratic politician to promise, as Barack Obama once did, to “spread the wealth around” — but only when “wealth” and “wealthy” mean the same thing. The Warren standard is to spread your wealth around whether you’re wealthy or not.

In a recent column, my colleague David Brooks posed a difficult and necessary question: If the choice is Trump or Warren, what then? David’s answer is that one would have to choose Warren, for the sake of democracy. Maybe he’s right. But voters tend to place their personal interests ahead of their political ideals. And, other than Bernie Sanders, no Democratic candidate would more richly tempt Americans to vote the former than Elizabeth Warren.

For the sake of democracy, let’s hope Democrats give America a better, safe, easier choice.

nyt/stephens

Brett Stephens is one of the more conservative columnists on the NYT and some of his criticism shows the typical conservative fear of "socialism" and their resolve to ignore the consequences climate change or environmental questions in general. But I do wonder how popular — and how necessary — it is to break up the health insurance industry or the tech giants? These seem to be the kinds of positions that get lots of applause at political rallies but I question how popular they are across the whole spectrum of voters. They will be easily caricatured and Warren may be left trying to explain why the arguments against her proposals are misleading — while people change the channel. The argument "against" wealth is problematic as well. USAmericans freaking love money and basically idolize the rich. That's part of the reason they voted for Trump. I mean, I agree with her, I think there should be a wealth tax. But my views on this question (and many others) are not particularly popular and just because I think it's a good idea doesn't mean it will be embraced by the majority of voters. In fact it's a pretty good indicator that it will lose!
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:21 am
Tulsi Gabbard

Verified account

@TulsiGabbard
7m7 minutes ago
More
This is a movement to take back the Democratic Party from corrupt warmongers. They’re doing everything they can to get me to run as a 3rd-party candidate so they can retain control of our Party. But I won’t. I’ll continue to fight to make our party & country of, by, & for the ppl
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:24 am
@Brand X,
You believe Gabbard is doing what she’s doing to save the Democratic Party?
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:33 am
@snood,
And god bless her for it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:34 am
Quote:
Giuliani Is Drawing Attention to Hunter Biden’s Work in Romania. But There’s a Problem.

Hunter Biden worked to help a Romanian executive facing corruption charges. But so did the former New York mayor — and a former F.B.I. director.
NYT
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:38 am
@Brand X,
Quote:
They’re doing everything they can to get me to run as a 3rd-party candidate so they can retain control of our Party.

Does she expand on this charge anywhere? What exactly are "they" doing to get her to run? Have they formed exploratory committees in key districts? Are they lining up contributors from the defense industry? It would be good if you could fill us in — if they're doing "everything they can" it shouldn't be difficult to provide some concrete examples.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 06:55 am
@hightor,
This would fit nicely in our Annals of Gaslighting series
Quote:
to get me to run as a 3rd-party candidate so they can retain control of our Party


Lash
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 07:10 am
@blatham,
It looks like Tulsi is adopting the progressive stance—running Centrists out of the D party. There’s already one corrupt, corporate-controlled Conservative party. We reject having two.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 07:15 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

It looks like Tulsi is adopting the progressive stance—running Centrists out of the D party. There’s already one corrupt, corporate-controlled Conservative party. We reject having two.

Yep-a-rooty.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 07:18 am
Question: What kind of bubble-headed rube does it take to convince that Tulsi Gabbard is frequenting Hannity and trashing Democrats because she wants to save democracy?

blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 07:40 am
@snood,
Quote:
Question: What kind of bubble-headed rube does it take to convince that Tulsi Gabbard is frequenting Hannity and trashing Democrats because she wants to save democracy?

If you want to save the Democratic Party, the place to go is Fox, no question about it. That's where you'll find the careful political analysts with whom to discuss this project and it's where you'll find precisely the right audience of citizens whose key desire is the strengthening of the Dem party and progressive policy outcomes.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 08:00 am
Maybe one of her fans can fill us in as to how she's running centrists out of the party. How has she amassed that sort of power while barely getting enough votes to qualify for the debates? The only real break she's gotten is the condemnation of her candidacy by Hillary Clinton, which is sure to win her another half of a percentage point in popularity. I think I may take a tip from good old A2K and put her, and her presidential aspirations, on "ignore".
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 08:06 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Maybe one of her fans can fill us in as to how she's running centrists out of the party
They're flooding out in the thousands every hour as we speak. But the MSM isn't covering this story because they're part of the flood. Or something like that, I guess. How is she achieving this sacred goal? Fox appearances, most likely.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 08:25 am
@snood,
Which Democrats has Tulsi criticized? Which ones has she championed?

If everyone criticized politicians based on what they do and say, our country would be in much better shape now. Because of cheerleaders covering lies and corruption, we have no accountability in either party.

Criticism and accountability go hand in hand.

I’m not covering for any of them.

I think Tulsi is right on this and your cloaking of your favorite politicians is wrong.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 08:26 am
Not sure who might be familiar with Nancy LeTourneau. She's whip-smart and a fine political writer who was taken on by Washington Monthly to replace Ed Kilgore who moved to NYMag (and before Ed, Steve Benen had held this spot). Link is here
Quote:
The Overwhelming Evidence in Support of Clinton’s Claims About Gabbard

Hillary Clinton stirred up quite the hornet’s nest when she said this during a podcast interview with David Plouffe.

Quote:
“I’m not making any predictions but I think they [the Kremlin] have got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate,” Clinton said. “She’s the favorite of the Russians… They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far.”


Even though Clinton didn’t say the name of the person she was referring to, Tulsi Gabbard immediately knew who she was talking about and responded with an unhinged rant about Clinton on Twitter—then proceeded to go on Tucker Carlson’s show to repeat her attack.

A lot of reporters in the mainstream media claimed that Clinton had accused Gabbard of being a Russian asset without any evidence, while Tim Wu, a law professor at Columbia, took to the New York Times to suggest that Clinton’s remarks were a conspiracy theory based simply on innuendo.

I suspect that Clinton chose her words carefully and, rather than accuse Gabbard of anything, was connecting the dots about Russia’s interference based on evidence that has been widely reported. For example, back in February, Robert Windrem and Ben Popken reported that “Russia’s propaganda machine discovers 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard.”

Quote:
An NBC News analysis of the main English-language news sites employed by Russia in its 2016 election meddling shows Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, who is set to make her formal announcement Saturday, has become a favorite of the sites Moscow used when it interfered in 2016.

Several experts who track websites and social media linked to the Kremlin have also seen what they believe may be the first stirrings of an upcoming Russian campaign of support for Gabbard.


Having been on the front line of Putin’s last attempt to interfere in a presidential election, Clinton is very aware of the tactics that were used against her. It wasn’t simply that Moscow supported Donald Trump. In his indictment against those who participated in Russia’s social media campaign, Robert Mueller documented that they were also involved in supporting candidates during the Democratic primary.

Quote:
A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton…

The document, which spells out in detail how the Russians worked to support Trump’s campaign, alleges that on or about Feb. 10, 2016, the Russians internally circulated an outline of themes for future content to be posted on social media accounts.

“Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on ‘politics in the USA’ and to ‘use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them),’” the indictment said.

On or about Nov. 3, 2016, just five days before the election, the Russians tried to boost Stein’s campaign by buying an ad to post on the Instagram account “Blacktivisit,” according to the indictment. The ad read in part: “Choose peace and vote for Jill Stein. Trust me, it’s not a wasted vote.”


The evidence is clear: Russia established a pattern of attempting to disrupt the Democratic primary in 2016 and is obviously doing the same thing this year. The only remaining question is why they chose Tulsi Gabbard.

The most obvious answer to that question is that Gabbard has centered her campaign on a message of ending regime change wars, like the one in Syria. That is based on a lie, and just so happens to reflect the talking points embraced by Assad and Putin. The United States condemned Assad’s use of violence to put down civilian protests against his regime, which is how the civil war in that country began. But U.S. military involvement in Syria has always been about defeating ISIS, particularly by working with the Kurds.

Gabbard also tries to sell herself as the anti-war candidate who stands for peace. But in addition to calling herself a “hawk” when it comes to the war on terror, her past positions hardly qualify as peaceful. When Putin and Assad began bombing northwestern Syria—a campaign that has been labeled a war crime—Gabbard endorsed their efforts.
Quote:
Tulsi Gabbard
@TulsiGabbard
Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 and must be defeated. Obama won’t bomb them in Syria. Putin did. #neverforget911
9:03 AM - Oct 1, 2015

Quote:
Tulsi Gabbard
@TulsiGabbard
Bad enough US has not been bombing al-Qaeda/al-Nusra in Syria. But it’s mind-boggling that we protest Russia’s bombing of these terrorists.
10:40 PM - Sep 30, 2015


When it comes to Gabbard’s voting record in Congress, she is one of only a handful of representatives who voted against the Magnitsky Act, which sanctioned Russians involved in the murder of tax accountant Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison in 2009. In addition, she was one of only three representatives listed as “not voting” on two other bills related to Russia.

Quote:
Last week, the House voted on a bill honoring slain Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov, who was assassinated in Moscow in 2015. The bill, sponsored by Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY), came with a number of provisions, including calling for an investigation into Nemtsov’s death and sanctions against those responsible. The bill also condemned Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin for persecuting political opponents…

Soon after, the House voted on a bill sponsored by Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA) that reiterated America’s position of not recognizing Russian sovereignty over Crimea.


Vladimir Putin has focused his efforts to influence U.S. foreign policy on three areas: (1) Ukraine, (2) Syria, and (3) overturning the Magnitsky Act. On all three, Gabbard has either provided direct support or failed to oppose his aims. Of course, it also helps that Gabbard has positioned herself to malign not only Hillary Clinton, but the entire Democratic Party as well—specifically by claiming that the 2020 election has already been rigged.

None of that is evidence to suggest that Gabbard is an active agent of the Kremlin. It might be that Putin is supporting her because her views align with his. As John Sipher notes, Russians calls someone like that a “useful idiot.”

Quote:
The Russians – like the Soviets before them – generally have a much larger stable of assets. They utilize fellow travelers, terrorists, and members of fringe groups as well as maintaining friendships with people who either knowingly or unknowingly accept their propaganda. They call these people “useful idiots.”…

One reason the intelligence services in Russia are more comfortable with sources that have not signed on the dotted line is that the Kremlin uses its intelligence services for more purposes than western counterparts. …Russian intelligence services play a more central role in carrying out their foreign policy objectives. It plays an active and offensive role. They use their services to engage in information warfare, disseminate disinformation, support propaganda, engage in perception management and sow chaos abroad.


That was the focus of Clinton’s claims about Gabbard and the evidence is overwhelming that she is right to sound the alarm. To ignore it is to invite the same kind of interference that infected the 2016 presidential election.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 08:50 am
Saagar Enjeti: Clinton remarks on Gabbard 'shows just how deep the rot in our system goes'
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/466780-saagar-enjeti-clinton-remarks-on-gabbard-shows-just-how-deep-the-rot-in-our?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton continued her debasement tour over the weekend in a stunning display of hubris and the perfect encapsulation of why she lost in the first place. Many of you by now I sure know that Hillary took a disgusting cheap shot at congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard over the weekend accusing her of being groomed by the Russian government for a third party run.

Worse, her team of C-list enforcers came out of the woodwork to defend her pointing to Gabbard wanting to get out of Syria as evidence. The stupidity was best summed up by Clinton spokesperson Nick Merrill when told reporters who asked what evidence exactly Clinton had to back up her accusations quote "if the nesting doll fits."

This is the same Nick Merril who Ronan Farrow tells us refused to set up an interview for him with Clinton because he was pursuing a story about sexual predator Harvey Weinstein. As journalist Michael Tracey noted after Clinton's disgusting smear, the former secretary of state is effectively accusing a major in the Hawaii national guard of a crime punishable by death.

Perhaps the only good thing that came out of Clinton's re-entry into the Democratic race was Tulsi Gabbard's epic response.

Clinton's smear is of course classic. She is a bitter woman in Chappaqua who cannot accept that policies she championed for decades and her complete lacking as a politician is why Donald Trump is now President of the United States. Only the Russians could deny the self-anointed Queen of the United States her throne, and she's so mad at Tulsi Gabbard for calling our DNC bias against Bernie Sanders in 2016 that she isn't willing to stay quiet.

The smugness of Nick Merril's response, Neera Tanden's immediate jump into the fray to defend her former boss, and the media coverage of the incident remind us all why so many people pulled the lever for Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders in 2016. Take a look at this Politico headline, Hillary Clinton calls Tulsi Gabbard a Russian favorite and possible third party candidate as if it bears any credence whatsoever. As Brit Hume points out, where is the quote "without evidence" tag that the media loves to include any time Donald Trump says anything.

The New York Times, of course, left out the same caveat. Even worse in their story after going through Clinton's accusation and Tulsi's response the reporter writes "disinformation experts have noted frequent mentions of Ms. Gabbard by RT, the kremlin-backed news agency, and apparent twitter bot activity amplifying pro-Gabbard messages and hashtags."

What reasonable takeaway is a reader of that article supposed to have? Hillary's bunk is once again being accepted wholesale and parroted by the paper of record. This entire episode just how deep the Russian delusions of 2016 run through our most established institutions and so-called smart people on TV. Just look at MSNBC where a supposedly very smart reporter points out that well Tulsi didn't exactly deny being a Russian asset, I'm not joking

I wish this was just a monologue making fun of Hillary Clinton's boomer musings, but it actually shows just how deep the rot in our system goes and how far they will go to destroy the character of somebody who dares to stand up to the bipartisan consensus here in Washington.

This entire episode shows us that the establishment has learned from 2016. They continue to advocate for the same endless wars in the Middle East, won't apologize for destroying our manufacturing base and selling out their own citizens to the Chinese, all while life expectancy for the average American continues to decline. If you point that out, I guess you're a Russian asset. In that case, sign me up comrades.
0 Replies
 
 

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