snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 05:32 am
@hightor,
Don’t feel bad, Hightor. I too am evidently Blatham’s “sock puppet” ( a gullible, sycophantic one, at that). It’s just one of the nasty little things Lash poops on people that agree with each other and disagree with her. Part of her bottomless charm.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 05:34 am
aniel Clark
@dcforcongress
·
12h
To the "Vote Blue No Matter Who" people, instead of asking us to lower our standards, please raise yours.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 05:43 am
https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69502600_10213959644848515_2888033024551682048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQk0tl5m9X68z-gfJXkqf6E_P1p9rWHv-FJJumj1x79bhIeVOmcFhGI-44GZhx5L6IQirS_qEChkRY7dhpofiViC&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=60808d083996bc77338c3568adf3bfa5&oe=5E0BEFCA
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 06:09 am
@edgarblythe,
Maybe they just don't like his proposals. It reminds me of the conservatives who complain that the media is "biased" against Trump because they point out his weaknesses and mistakes. It's possible that some "Very Serious Pundits" believe the cost of Sanders's climate plan is so high that it's unrealistic. For columnists to simply ignore a proposal with a ten trillion dollar price tag because they support a candidate would be an obvious case of "bias". In any event, OpEds are not to be taken as serious "news". As long as the opinions are backed up with facts and examples I think the "bias" charge is rather pointless.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 06:44 am
@hightor,
The comparison with Trump's wall has no clear rationale, though, other than trying to make Sanders look bad. It's comparing apples and oranges.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 06:46 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

aniel Clark
@dcforcongress
·
12h
To the "Vote Blue No Matter Who" people, instead of asking us to lower our standards, please raise yours.

We’re saying keep your standards high, but if your candidate doesn’t win the primary, vote for the Dem candidate.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 06:47 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The comparison with Trump's wall has no clear rationale, though, other than trying to make Sanders look bad. It's comparing apples and oranges.


Except they have in common that it is possible to perceive both as unrealistic.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 06:53 am
@snood,
There's nothing unrealistic about a border wall, though. And then, many things have been thought unrealistic by some dude before and yet got done, like flying to the moon.

Wisen up: comparing Trump and Sanders is ill-founded, absurd, and meant to harm.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:02 am
@hightor,
Quote:
OpEds are not to be taken as serious "news".
A simple point.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:09 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The comparison with Trump's wall has no clear rationale, though, other than trying to make Sanders look bad. It's comparing apples and oranges.
It is absolutely fine to criticize an opinion piece run by any publication. I do it regularly. God knows how many critical posts I've written on Eric Erickson, Bill Kristol, Michael Gerson, Maureen Dowd, Ross Douthat, David Brooks, Jennifer Rubin (version 1.0), George Will, etc etc

And it's fine to criticize a paper's choice of editorial contributors. But at the same time, one has to allow papers to carry a broad range of political views and ideas even if one despises some of the resulting content.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:19 am
Vote for a centrist and here's what to expect:


It's true! It's true! The crown has made it clear.
The climate must be perfect all the year.

A law was made a distant moon ago here:
July and August cannot be too hot.
And there's a legal limit to the snow here
In Camelot.
The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot.
By order, summer lingers through September
In Camelot.
Camelot! Camelot!
I know it sounds a bit bizarre,
But in Camelot, Camelot
That's how conditions are.
The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

Camelot! Camelot!
I know it gives a person pause,
But in Camelot, Camelot
Those are the legal laws.
The snow may never slush upon the hillside.
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

Increments are preserved in Camelot
No radical programs to help anybody
But excuses you get a lot
In Camelot
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:27 am
Karl Rove is a wonderful and honest human
Quote:
Eric Kleefeld
@EricKleefeld
Karl Rove on AOC, during Fox Business appearance: "She is one of the most vicious, nasty people in politics. Did you see her tweet…'the GOP is working to end democracy,' she tweets out…accuse your opponents of wanting to destroy America. Yeah, really good. Really good."
"Wanting to destroy America" claims, of course, constitute about, I dunno, some 70% of Fox's content regarding AOC.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:31 am
@edgarblythe,
As much as I love Richard Harris' gruff vocals (and that lyric), I'm not sure you'll get much mileage outside of your fellow Sanders supporters with the suggestion that Bernie is the only realistic, down-to-earth, non-dreamland thinker presently running for the nomination.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 07:41 am
@blatham,
WaPo itself published this oped recently, which explains the problem quite well:

Quote:
Bernie Sanders has a smart critique of corporate media bias
By Katrina vanden Heuvel, August 20, 2019

Last week, after criticizing Amazon for underpaying its workers and paying nothing in federal income taxes last year, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) noted: “I talk about that all of the time. And then I wonder why The Washington Post — which is owned by Jeff Bezos who owns Amazon — doesn’t write particularly good articles about me.” The response was immediate. Martin Baron, The Post’s executive editor, dismissed Sanders’s characterization as a “conspiracy theory.” CNN’s commentators accused Sanders of using President Trump’s playbook; NPR similarly suggested he was echoing Trump. Nate Silver, the editor of FiveThirtyEight, descended to psychological babble, assailing Sanders for having a “sense of entitlement,” feeling that “he’s entitled to the nomination this time, and if he doesn’t win, it’s only because ‘the media’/'the establishment’ took it away from him."

Let’s be clear: The Post and the New York Times aren’t the same as Fox News, which has turned into a shameless propaganda outfit. But Sanders wasn’t repeating Trump; he was making a smart structural critique of our commercial mainstream media.

It’s not as if Sanders lacks for evidence that he has particularly suffered at the hands of the mainstream media. The New York Times featured an article on his trip to the Soviet Union decades ago as somehow formative of his views, and got caught quoting a Democratic strategist critical of Sanders without disclosing the strategist’s close ties to Hillary Clinton’s super PAC. Sometimes outlets simply pretend Sanders doesn’t exist, as when Politico headlined a national poll showing Sanders in a strong second place this way: “Harris, Warren tie for third place in new 2020 Dem poll, but Biden still leads.” After one fiercely contested debate between Sanders and Hillary Clinton in early March 2016, The Post published 16 news articles and opinion pieces, many of them critical, about Sanders in 16 hours; a few weeks later, the Times’s own public editor criticized the post-publication “stealth editing” of a piece originally favorable to Sanders.

But, contrary to his critics’ claims, Sanders disavowed any notion that Bezos controls coverage at The Post. “I think my criticism of the corporate media is not … that they wake up, you know, in the morning and say, ‘What could we do to hurt Bernie Sanders?’ ” he told CNN. Instead he offered a criticism that is neither new nor radical: “There is a framework of what we can discuss and what we cannot discuss, and that’s a serious problem.”

In an interview with John Nichols of the Nation (where I serve as publisher and editorial director), Sanders went out of his way to distinguish this critique of the media from Trump’s assault on the free press: “We’ve got to be careful. We have an authoritarian type president right now, who does not believe in our Constitution, who is trying to intimidate the media … That’s not what we do. But I think what we have to be concerned about ... is that you have a small number of very, very large corporate interests who control a lot of what the people in this country see, hear, and read. And they have their agenda.”

In an email to supporters, Sanders wrote: “Even more important than much of the corporate media’s dislike of our campaign is the fact that much of the coverage in this country portrays politics as entertainment, and largely ignores the major crises facing our communities. ... As a general rule of thumb, the more important the issue is to large numbers of working people, the less interesting it is to the corporate media.” The corporate media inevitably turns politics into a horse race and policy into “gotcha” questions or personality disputes. Trump’s ability to dominate the free media in 2016 is testament to this tendency.

The structural bias of the corporate media is particularly clear in these tempestuous times. The elite consensus — the post-Cold War bipartisan embrace of corporate globalization, market fundamentalism and the United States’ global reach — has been shattered in the sands of Iraq and the suites of Wall Street. With the economy — even at its best — not working for most Americans, the old order cannot be sustained. When insurgent candidates such as Sanders shock Beltway pundits, conventional wisdom is exposed as folly. Sanders is particularly frowned on by the Democratic Party establishment and by big business, which disagree with his views, especially on inequality. Not surprisingly, a mainstream media that swims in that same pond takes on the same color. It doesn’t take a call from the outlets’ owners. [...]

More:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/20/bernie-sanders-has-smart-critique-corporate-media-bias/


blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:15 am
@Olivier5,
As you note up front, the WP accepted vanden Heuvel's piece for publication.

Beyond that, I don't think there is anything in the piece, from either Sanders or the author, with which i have any serious disagreement. The critique she and Bernie make are the same critique that Chomsky has been making for years - that major cultural media tend to support the status quo. It is a critique I agree with.

But similar critiques can be made about, for example, the major religions in a culture. American evangelism is a poignant contemporary example. Why? That's probably pretty damned complicated but one key factor is just that it is usually easier to go with the tide rather than against it. Consensus and agreement, broadly spread across a culture or community, is necessarily a key component in that culture's or community's cooperative functioning and continuance. And yeah, there is both good and bad in this.

These dynamics exist outside of and previous to the modern corporate world. But that world will respond similarly. Which is why I am all-together in favor of strong regulations limiting corporate ownership of media and of limiting any news entity from overwhelming penetration in any region.

As to the "entertainment" factor - god help us but I don't see how that changes. That is a response to consumer demands and to human nature.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:23 am
@blatham,
I think people need to keep in mind these things when reading WaPo, in particular. The NYT does a better job at a balanced coverage, in my experience.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:38 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
one key factor is just that it is usually easier to go with the tide rather than against it.
Might well be, but some prefer to go with Persil, All, Gain, ...











Ooops, perhaps you didn't refer to the favourite of your houseman's duty?
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:39 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I think people need to keep in mind these things when reading
God, yes. But we probably ought not to expect many will engage in media analyses to such a level. I think perhaps the best we can do is to encourage people to attend to multiple information sources (credible and transparent sources), to help forward non-corporate media entities (eg ProPublica), and to defend news media and opinion in the face of the Trumpian moves to discredit any source which is critical of a politician or party.

What Trump and the Russians (or any authoritarian entity) understand is that their power depends upon information control. Right now, that's the big thing.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter. You have totally left me in the dust with that one. Top to bottom, I have no idea what you are speaking of. Please don't do that. I am emotionally fragile.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 08:53 am
@blatham,
Tide is a detergent trademark...
 

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