Progressives (Liberals)

Just like electing Reagan will kill our democracy, reelecting Reagan will kill our democracy, electing George H W Bush will kill our democracy, electing George W Bush will kill our democracy, and reelecting George W Bush will kill our democracy.

Our democracy is going to be just fine. Mr. Trump is protecting the country from leftists who seek to abolish freedom and civil liberties.

Trump is aiding and abetting rs th right wing ultras who see nothing wrong in using guns to violate _fcivil rights by killing peiople for fun. Thats why people are saying "vote blue no matter who".

Actually I think a number of these shooters have been leftists.

The Hungarian revolution of 1956 destroyed Russian tanks with gas bottle bombs until they ran out of gas and bottles than the Russian military crushed them. Perhaps if Ollie had been there he could have taught them the proper way to stop tanks with 30 caliber bullets.

Whatever gibberish you're babbling about stopping tanks, it's nothing to do with me.

I wonder if you have a Twitter account. Hillary Centrists, more than any group, refer to themselves as the Resistance.

Does everybody know why Centrists have doughnut icons by their Twitter handles? Just curious...

I've had a twitter account since 2009. As to your claim, I have no reason to believe it.

However, I note your continued attempts to derogate the Dem party through use of the right wing "Hillary" meme.

So, all the democrats voted for Hillary; there’s no such thing as a lefty split with Bernie progressives? LOL. AOC, Tlaib, Omar don’t really exist...

Bernie is just a consertive republican trick to take votes from real democrats who can reverse the damage your republican buddies like trump have done to our country.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailydot.com/unclick/corncob-donut-rose-wilted-flower-emoji/%3famp

Donut (with or without water drop)

The donut emoji emerged from a comment made by Nina Turner, president of Our Revolution, the political action group that aims to continue the movement started by Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign. On a recent trip to the Democratic National Committee’s Washington, D.C., headquarters, Turner and fellow Our Revolution supporters were apparently blocked from entering the building. The DNC also offered the group donuts and water—and the refreshments were not met with open arms. Turner said:

“They tried to seduce us with donuts and water. They’re pompous and arrogant enough to say to the people, ‘you’re not good enough to be on our property — and, oh by the way, we’re just gonna hand you donuts and water over the barricade.’ That is insulting. Absolutely insulting.”
Since last summer, when emails emerged showing that DNC officials favored Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, the committee has been at odds with Sanders supporters. Turner’s comments showed that the feud between Sanders supporters and the DNC is not over.

The donut comment stuck. Last week, a Twitter account called Hillary Warned Us called for “proud” Democrats to add a donut to their username.
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They insulted a black American, denied her entrance into the building, and sent her donuts outside. It was incredibly insulting to a WOC. The racist underpinning is disgusting. Every Hillary Centrist who fronts that doughnut is laughing at black women.

Vote for Bernie or give Trump a second term.

You gotta be kidding. Link And that's just one IRA account.

And this is the propaganda vector designed to spread discontent with the Dem party among women of color, blacks particularly. Any plausible path to a Trump re-election is utterly dependent on keeping women and blacks away from the polls. Thus the garbage above.

Thanks for calling garbage garbage.

You're the queen of the scoop! This happened in July 2017, as evidenced here:

https://theoutline.com/post/2092/the-dnc-keeps-snubbing-the-left

Man, I'd love to see Sanders's programs enacted. A ten trillion dollar commitment to phase out fossil fuels by 2030! Way to go!! I'd love to see corporate executives forced to take public transportation, ordinary people using bicycles, and the nationalization of our energy system — public power for the win! I'd love to see unions made relevant and the managerial class rocked back on its heels. While I don't believe that medical care is a "right" I'd be thrilled to see a government-run health system as we see in the UK and in most of the developed nations around the world. In fact there are very few, if any, of Sanders's policies that I wouldn't want to see enacted. I'd love to live in a USA like that.

Okay, so why am I somewhat ambivalent about his candidacy? Because I don't believe in political campaigns which are basically wish lists for progressive idealists and have no chance of being enacted. What's Sanders's fallback position if, by some miracle, he's nominated and elected? Even if he were to have substantial majorities in both houses (which is doubtful) do we really think the courts are going to give the thumbs up for such sweeping revisions to our economic system? Honestly, I'd rather see halfway measures enacted than witness a wholesale revolution blocked by the courts, a serious pushback by corporate interests, and tens of millions of disappointed voters checking Republican ballots in '22 and '24.

I know Sanders has committed supporters. But it's a mistake to rate his electibility by the passion of his followers — because I doubt they make of 15% of the total electorate. Sure, I'll vote for him against Trump but not every Democrat or moderate independent will — especially as they begin to assess the total cost and real scope of his proposals. The very things that appeal to me are going to turn off a lot of voters, voters who will sit on their hands, figuring they've managed to last this long under Trump and fearing, rather than welcoming, the radical changes that they would have to make — or more likely, the partisan skirmishing which will just lead to another four years of gridlock and stalemate. I hope to hell I'm wrong, but turning the USA socialist in one election just isn't grounded in reality. A less ambitious, but more realistic, program might have some success. And it's from those limited successes that we build foundations for real change.

It appears to me that most of the criticisms you expressed above, regarding Bernie Sanders' campaign platform and promises, could as well be levied against all the other prominent Democrat candidates. In a couple of cases, for example Kamala Harris, the advocated platform has varied a good deal and appears to be sufficiently vague and ambiguous to defy analysis. However for the others, including Elizabeth Warren, the feasibility and realism of the policies they advocate all appear a bit fantastic, full of vague and illusory promised outcomes and means with which to get there.

Nearly all their promised initiatives involve significant expansion of government power and direct control of our lives and economy, and the loss of individual initiative and freedom. The historical track record for such programs is, at best. rather dismal, and gruesome examples abound in the history of the last century.

Everybody is concerned with roadblocks to a decent approach to the situation, which is the greatest roadblock of all. Instead of "I can't" it should be "Let's put our shoulders to the wheel." Can't never did a thing. Neither has "increments" which is a signal for "I will talk a good loss for as long as it takes."

Lenin was, from a very early stage in the Bolshevik Revolution, very aware of the issue you raised concerning the difficulty of attaining the visionary goals of Marxist Socialism, and was determined to persist, just as you indicate, in getting there. He quickly learned of the difficulties involved in taming the unruly human natures of his citizens to accept his collectivist goals, and, in response, adopted a policy he called, "The elimination of the irreconcilables" as a necessary means of creating his "New Socialist Man" and the Nirvana he promised. This involved the continuing extermination of so- called class enemies, including, all internal political opponents, land owners, Ukrainian peasant farmers and many others. Millions were exterminated.

This process itself changed the character of the Soviet government which became authoritarian, criminal and focused only on the preservation of the power of its governing elite. The pursuit of the Socialist "vision" became merely the excuse for the preservation of the dictatorship. The Stalinist purges, which followed in the mid 1930s involved the extermination of millions more, and the socialist paradise never became real - stagnation, poverty and totalitarian rule were instead the lasting results.

The histories of the former Eastern European Soviet satellite governments and those of China, Cuba and Venezuela all indicate the same process.

That's a lot of evidence.

What you fail to see is that they will claim that it wasn't done right... they know without a doubt that they will get it right this time, they just need the chance.