@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:The mtDNA that the article refers to is from European admixture centuries before the Roman seizures.
All that shows is that European women married into Ashkenazim families. It does not undermine the claim that the Ashkenazim are descended from the Israelites.
InfraBlue wrote:The resettlement of Judahites, not Israelites, during the Neo-Babylonian deportations was to Babylon, not Europe. The deportation of Israelites by the Neo-Assyrians was to Mesopotamia, not Europe.
It still was forcing them to leave against their will.
InfraBlue wrote:Yeah, a general Levantine and Middle Eastern connection.
The Y chromosome results were pretty specific. They show that the Ashkenazim diverged from the Palestinians during the Bronze Age.
Given that there was a unified Canaanite culture in the area during the Bronze Age, which then diverged into separate Iron Age cultures, it is pretty obvious how the pieces fit together.
InfraBlue wrote:The Y chromosome DNA is a very small part of the total genealogy of an individual.
It's still good enough to tie the Ashkenazim to the Palestinians during the Bronze Age.
InfraBlue wrote:oralloy wrote:They are Middle Eastern genes only in the sense that all non-African genes are Middle Eastern (as the ancestors of all non-Africans passed through the Middle East on their way out of Africa).
Incorrect.
What other significance is there to the fact that this group broke away from the Middle East 12 to 25 thousand years ago?
InfraBlue wrote:The Middle Eastern admixture in Europe happened around 12,000 to 25,000 years ago, according to the study, long after the initial population of Europe which occurred between 50,000 and 43,000 years ago. These Middle Eastern populations were archaic farmers.
What you said is true as far as I can see, but how is it relevant to the question of whether the Ashkenazim are descended from the ancient Israelites?
InfraBlue wrote:Nothing genealogical refers to a supposed Israelite heritage.
The fact that the Ashkenazim diverged from the Palestinians during the Bronze Age is a pretty good match to the history of Bronze Age Canaanites diverging into separate Iron Age cultures.
InfraBlue wrote:Genealogy deals in science, not mythology.
And science says that the Ashkenazim diverged from the Palestinians during the Bronze Age.
InfraBlue wrote:oralloy wrote:The ancestral population that diverged from the Middle East 12-25 thousand years ago is "Middle Eastern" only in the sense that all non-African ancestral populations have Middle Eastern heritage.
Incorrect. See my response above to this assertion of yours.
In what other sense is this ancestral population Middle Eastern?
InfraBlue wrote:oralloy wrote:The other ancestral population is Middle Eastern because they were the ancient Israelites.
No. The genealogical studies do not refer to ancient Israelite ancestors.
They show that the Ashkenazim diverged from the Palestinians during the Bronze Age. That's a pretty close match to the history of Bronze Age Canaan diverging into differing Iron Age cultures.
They also show the Ashkenazim having a Middle Eastern lineage that entered Europe 600 to 800 years ago.
InfraBlue wrote:Religiously and mythologically speaking, it is their homeland.
It is also their homeland in reality. DNA shows that they diverged from the Palestinians during the Bronze Age.
InfraBlue wrote:That does not justify their oppression of the Palestinian people, the indigenous people of Palestine.
DNA shows that the Ashkenazim are equally the indigenous people of Palestine.
I do not share your opinion that the Palestinians are being oppressed. I see the two state solution as being entirely fair.
