hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 06:58 am
@Lash,
Ooh...I didn't see that clip.

If it's as bad as you describe I would agree with you. If it's just "choking up" or something ambiguous, I don't know. An emotional response to furious constituents in your home town might be excusable as would visible tears at the funeral of slain schoolchildren — it doesn't portend being reduced to tears at a summit conference. But yeah, this might be a deal breaker for some.

Quote:
Oliver Davis, a black member of the South Bend City Council who has been a sharp critic of Mr. Buttigieg on policing matters, paused a long time during a telephone interview on Sunday when asked if the mayor showed empathy.

“If he cries and sheds tears then people say he’s weak,” he said. “If he doesn’t shed a tear people say he’s cold. If he gets angry people say he’s out of control. If he has a flat face and doesn’t say anything, people say he doesn’t feel our pain.”

Mr. Davis said he admired the mayor for wading into a crowd of protesters and Mr. Logan’s grieving relatives on Friday night. “Very few people could have withstood what he went through without completely losing it,” he said.

(...)

Lwan Easton, an African-American resident of South Bend who attended the meeting on Sunday, said he was generally pleased with Mr. Buttigieg’s performance as mayor. But while parts of the city have indeed improved, Mr. Easton said the mayor had struggled connecting with black people and “needs to step up his game with community interaction.”

“This is a defining moment for him,” Mr. Easton said. “I believe that he can probably figure this out.”

Toward the end of the meeting, Verma Blackman, an African-American resident, spoke about her questions about Mr. Logan’s death, about how he was transported to the hospital in a police car rather than an ambulance, about her frustration that the body camera her tax money helped buy was not turned on. And she told the mayor that her young grandson was scared of his city’s police officers.

“I’m doing everything I know how to fix it,” Mr. Buttigieg told her.

As she left the high school, Ms. Blackman said she was pleased with the mayor’s response.

“I’m a big fan of Mayor Pete: he answered it and didn’t tiptoe around it,” Ms. Blackman said. “That’s what I wanted: I wanted him to respond to our cries. Because we’re crying.”

nyt
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 08:35 am
I don't know how much horsepower centrist group Third Way has... but they say Bernie cannot beat Trump. They also say they will support him if he is the nominee.

Third Way

Verified account

@ThirdWayTweet
Jun 22
More
Thanks for all the attention, Senator Sanders.

But you're wrong. Your campaign is an existential threat b/c an avowed Dem Socialist is likely to lose to Trump.

Still, if you win the nomination, we will strongly support you. B/C Trump is an existential threat to our republic.

Bernie Sanders

Verified account

@BernieSanders
Jun 22
More
The corporate wing of the party thinks we're an “existential threat” because we want to:

-Make health care a right
-Break up big banks
-Save the planet
-Make college tuition-free
-End endless wars
-Make the wealthy pay their fair share

If that makes us a "threat,” so be it.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 08:50 am
@Brand X,
They should explain their overuse of the word "existential".

It looks like they believe the Dem Socialist "shopping list" would be easily portrayed to the electorate as impractical, costly, communist, and unconstitutional and that it would be hard for moderate Dems to run on that platform. If the ideas seem to resonate with more than just the activist wing of the party they'll probably come around but it could be a hard sell in many districts. Promising to overhaul the largest capitalist economy in the world is taking the party out on a limb — their vertigo is understandable.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 10:46 am
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
@AOC
·
15m
Student loans are a scam.

That’s why I join
@BernieSanders @RepJayapal & @IlhanMN to forgive ALL student loans AND make colleges tuition-free.

PS: for the cost of the GOP tax scam (~$2 TRILLION), we could’ve already forgiven every student loan in America w/ billions left over.


Evan McMurry
@evanmcmurry
· 1h.@AOC on bill to eliminate all student debt: "It was literally easier for me to become the youngest woman in American history elected to Congress than it is to pay off my student loans.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 11:28 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Student loans are a scam.

Wasn't a lot of the problem caused when the schools, realizing that students would get these loans, proceeded to raise tuition costs? I think the government — both federal and state — needs to do more to address practices which violate the spirit of offering these student loans to begin with. The whole situation is disgusting.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 12:53 pm
@hightor,
Dumping capital into any closed market will raise the prices of the goods sold if there is not a concurrent increase in the supply, This is a rather obvious economic fact. It was forgotten in the years leading up to the 2007 crash in the housing Market bubble that had been fed by the quasi Federal corporations, Freddy Mac and Fannie May. Just a few years later we similarly tried to increase access to university education by subsidized loans to students - an act that once again, absent any concurrent action to increase the supply of student seats, simply raised the cost of tuition and did so at a very rapid pace. The new administrative bureaucracies that have grown in our universities as a direct result of these new revenues will not simply go away on its own. The sad result the cost of university education will remain high for a long time The actual result was to make such education less accessible - the direct opposite of the intended one. The main victims in both the mortgage bubble and the ongoing student loan crisis were, ironically, the intended beneficiaries; namely marginal home buyers and students without financial assets.

Now the "Progressive" political dispensers of benefits to the voting public (who have accepted no responsibility for the failure of their creations), are proposing various fixes to the problems they created. We should beware.
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 02:42 pm
Third Way

Verified account

@ThirdWayTweet
3h3 hours ago
More
Free college for all IS regressive. Blanket debt forgiveness could actually increase inequality
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 02:54 pm
@Brand X,
Haha. Post-truth. Nobody cares what they say anymore. That one is so insane, had to laugh.

But, seriously. People who are living sweet —like the corrupt Third Way creeps—are scared out of their minds over Bernie’s programs.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 03:08 pm
@georgeob1,
Youve kind of gotten is.t backward. The mogrtgsge was. not due to fabbie ir freddie. Ut was all the private narket iivventing and heavily pushing risky new instruments and miscalculating risks. Fannie and freddy were frozen out of the market for years bevause the mortgages they guaranteed had to meet governmental standards and the private market ones didnt so fan and fred fell from al.ost half of the market to about a fifth til late inthe game when to compete they got their regulators to loosen standards. It was the greed of the privare mRkjet that did it. College costs had risen faster than inflTiln or wages for decades. Subsidized education provided the sharks a new way to scam bucks with for profit colllleges with inflated jobb promises and substandard facilities. Betsy devos's family led the way and now shes educ secretary.. The supply gtew contrA Grorgeob but it was scammers who did it. Needed MORE goernmental oversight.
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 03:19 pm
@Lash,
According to Daily Kos, 99% of the board at Third Way are investment bankers.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 03:28 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Now the "Progressive" political dispensers of benefits to the voting public (who have accepted no responsibility for the failure of their creations), are proposing various fixes to the problems they created. We should beware.


What's the fix that conservatives are proposing?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jun, 2019 03:32 pm
@Brand X,
I saw that. They named names. I was just sliming some lame Third Way mouthpiece on Twitter.

Bernie’s student loan announcement has got that joint—pro and con—JUMPING.

Even Trump has unveiled some weak sister healthcare executive order the same day. It looks like Trump is more concerned about running against Bernie because of so many people-friendly policies. He is throwing out phrases like ‘socialist takeover’ to scare low information people.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 02:36 am
@MontereyJack,
But georgeob1 makes a valid point — the outcome of a law doesn't always lead to the solution of the problem that it was intended to address. Witness the role of the Fair Housing Act in the sub-prime mortgage debacle.l
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 05:41 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
But georgeob1 makes a valid point — the outcome of a law doesn't always lead to the solution of the problem that it was intended to address. Witness the role of the Fair Housing Act in the sub-prime mortgage debacle.l

The same can be said for business ventures, or anything else. Just because we don't always succeed in what we try to do doesn't mean we should stop trying. George's take is simplistic and defeatist. He's saying: "Some policies have failed in the past, therefore it is futile to try and govern anything."
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 06:10 am
Lee Fang

Verified account

@lhfang
12h12 hours ago
More
Stephanie Cutter, former Obama official, appearing last week before health savings account investors, to say not to worry about true Medicare for All, which only Bernie Sanders is proposing, and he can't win.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 06:50 am
@Olivier5,
I'm not saying that we should stop trying. I'm saying that politicians should stop congratulating themselves for passing legislation and then ignore unforeseen negative consequences rather than addressing them. I've said that about the Affordable Care Act since 2010. If the problems had been identified early and corrected, the health care landscape in the USA would be very different today. Powerful forces will always try to game the system and legislators should be more vigilant.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 08:07 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

What's the fix that conservatives are proposing?


Given that a program of Government subsidized and guaranteed student loans, intended to make university education more accessible to all, has not only failed, but achieved exactly the opposite of its intended effect, by bringing about the most rapid increase in university tuitions in nearly a century, I believe you should first scrutinize the wisdom of Democrat proposals generally. "First do no harm" as in the Hippocratic oath is, a good rule.

Many such problems involving the production and distribution of quality goods and services are best achieved in competitive markets. Government action to stimulate competition among universities and make their pricing, the content of their curricula and the quality of their product more transparent would likely be a beneficial first step.

That may be a challenge because academics are notoriously adverse to accountability and competition. However some modest improvements in this area could have a large beneficial effect and do so without harming the process.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 08:09 am
@hightor,
Right. I agree thatunintended consequences are massively important to identify and try and correct (when negative at least). Yes we should mind them, and legislate carefuly and sparingly. But in George's thinking, any policy attempt is futile, because human beings can't be controlled so there's no point in even trying to have or enact policies.

IOW, he takes a reasonnable argument as his point of departure, but pushes it way beyond reason.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 08:15 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

hightor wrote:
But georgeob1 makes a valid point — the outcome of a law doesn't always lead to the solution of the problem that it was intended to address. Witness the role of the Fair Housing Act in the sub-prime mortgage debacle.l

The same can be said for business ventures, or anything else. Just because we don't always succeed in what we try to do doesn't mean we should stop trying. George's take is simplistic and defeatist. He's saying: "Some policies have failed in the past, therefore it is futile to try and govern anything."


The difference here is that businesses pursuing stupid or non productive actions with respect to their services, products or customers, are quickly replaced by more creative & productive competitors. Markets quickly annihilate the authors of bad policies.

Governments, based on political power, can continue pursuing the same stupid policies. That is the point in my reference to the similarities in the errors of injecting subsidized government capital into the housing market, and just a few years after the collapse of the economic bubble that created, doing as similar thing to the education market. An organization pursuing stupid ideas and remedies, that also fails to objectively learn from its errors, can do a lot of harm by just "trying again".
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 25 Jun, 2019 08:32 am
@georgeob1,
The 2007 crisis was primarily due to banks and rating companies lying to their clients about the strength of some of their products. The private sector fucked up. Those banks and rating agencies who whitewashed subprime bonds should have suffered some consequence for their action, but didn't. Something's amiss with your argument therefore.
 

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