oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 21 Apr, 2019 07:18 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Oralloy and Branco at their usual racist post spasms, implying none too subtly that black voters are so dumb they'd be taken in by the old carrot on a stick trick. They aren't. They're fully aware the GOP offers them nothing, and Trump is racist thru and thru. Which is why they overwhelmingly keep on rejecting the gop's blandishments and vote Dem. As do women. Hell, Shelby Steele, the black ex-chairman of the RNC, told Repubs that ten years or so ago, and they were too dense to listen. And that was from one of their own. They're still too dense, as is branco.

Are you the one holding the stick in that comic?
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sun 21 Apr, 2019 07:22 pm
@oralloy,
No, maroon.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:40 am
@TulsiGabbard

'If our leaders & media want to protect our elections, not just score political pts, first & most important thing we must do is institute b/up paper ballots by passing my Securing America’s Elections Act so no one can manipulate our votes & hack our elections #MuellerReport'
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 07:34 am
Quote:
I've warned that impeachment talk is dangerous, but the time has come: Laurence Tribe
USA Today

And keep in mind...
Quote:
Dave Weigel
‏Verified account
@daveweigel
Dave Weigel Retweeted Nate Silver
In an average of polls, Trump is still running at least 20 points behind where Bill Clinton was when the House impeached him.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 07:39 am
@blatham,
On the other hand...
Quote:
By Josh Marshall
April 22, 2019 9:03 am
In the rush of debate and intra-Democratic acrimony about impeachment over the weekend, I wanted to link back to this post from last August. Some of the details are different. But the gist is really the same. Many people who are furious at the President’s crimes and coverups want him impeached right now and think anything short of immediate of articles of impeachment amounts to some kind of civility fetish or refusal to fight his lawlessness. That’s not true. The problem with immediate impeachment is that it takes focus away from investigations which can actually have an effect. I would add that if you want to take the existing and on-going investigations and rebrand the Judiciary committee’s probe as an impeachment inquiry, fine, whatever – as long as it is truly open-ended and can run indefinitely. In any case, I encourage you to Read This Post.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 08:36 am
@blatham,
I admit at this point, strategy for me is secondary. I just want there to be some accountability at some point for this administration. I read an interesting article about the road to the Mueller report so to speak. The final result was not so cut and dried as some of the Trump apologist are making out on the Russia/Trump campaign transition team.

Inside the long hunt into whether Trump campaign conspired with Russia
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 09:15 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
I admit at this point, strategy for me is secondary.
Not so for me, rev. America must, somehow, return to earlier consensus on the rule of law and on fighting corruption at the top. If not, the consequences aren't difficult to imagine. But if such demands from Dems (and from the sane and moral conservatives) look likely to aid Trump's chances of a second term, then it is absolutely certain that much greater damage to democracy will unfold.

I don't know how to game this out.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 09:18 am
Quote:
Trump plausibly committed impeachable offenses. A leading expert explains how.

After botching their initial response to the Mueller report, top Democrats are now seriously engaging the debate over whether the shocking scale of corruption, wrongdoing, contempt for our democracy, endless official deception and skirting of criminality that it documented merits — or indeed obligates — an impeachment inquiry.

In multiple TV appearances, the chairmen of three House committees suggested Mueller’s findings are “serious and damning” and normally would fall “within the realm of impeachable offenses," and that doing nothing could leave Trump “emboldened” and signal that “future presidents can engage in this kind of corruption without consequence.”

...Philip Bobbitt, the constitutional scholar at Columbia University, is among those who have wrestled most deeply with the complex questions raised by impeachment. He is the co-author of “Impeachment: A Handbook,” which republishes the famous commentary on impeachment by Yale law scholar Charles L. Black Jr. and concludes with Bobbitt’s own discourse on the topic.

I spoke to Bobbitt at length about the latest revelations. The upshot: Bobbitt now believes it’s “plausible” that Trump committed impeachable offenses and that the House of Representatives is obligated to proceed from this premise.
Greg Sargent - more here
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 09:27 am
And from Steve Benen
Quote:
Democratic debate over Trump’s impeachment reaches a new stage

Before the public was able to read Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report last week, most Democratic leaders were eager to downplay talk of Donald Trump’s impeachment, if they were willing to acknowledge the question at all. But now that the report is out, and we’ve seen the evidence of the president’s alleged crimes, conditions are different.
At least a little...
HERE
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 09:29 am
@revelette1,
@ggreenwald
'6/ Everyone knows the scandal's key was the claim that Trump election-conspired with Russia and that he and his key associates were Russian assets. The Mueller Report found none of that. The media's belief that they can avoid embarrassment by feigning vindication is embarrassing.'

'5/ The media's bizarre self-celebration rests on the fact that CIA or Dem politicians (Schiff) leaked to them facts about meetings that they dutifully & accurately published. Yes, those meetings were real, but the media fraud was the sinister meaning given'

@mtracey

'Mueller cites two media reports, by strident Russiagaters Julia Ioffe and Ken Dilanian, related to a "meeting" Sessions supposedly had with Kislyak on April 27, 2016. Ioffe and Dilanian use innuendo to cast the meeting as highly suspicious. Muller concludes it was inconsequential'

@ggreenwald

'4/ One common theme implicitly embedded in many of these articles is disturbing and should not go unrebutted: that using encryption technology is a sign of wrongdoing. People use encryption to preserve privacy & combat NSA mass surveillance. It's not a indicator of guilt.'

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4wkxBFXkAMGOMg.png:large

'3/ The WP article also shows the massive, fatal flaw at the heart of the conspiracy theories, first pointed out by @Isikoff on MSNBC. Roger Stone was desperately trying to find out what WL had *weeks* before they published: proving there was no sweeping Trump/Russia conspiracy.

'2/ Reading this account, one almost starts to feel sorry for the Mueller team, who began believing they'd find a conspiracy. They ended with one last desperate hope: the crazed, elderly conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi. They threatened him with prosecution & still came up empty.'

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4wji8LX4AAZGmO.png:large

'1/ The @washingtonpost has a good, comprehensive article on how the Mueller investigation ended up unable to prove Trump/Russia conspiracy theories. It shows how sweeping an investigation it was, yet still came up empty on this'
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 09:54 am
@blatham,
I wonder if you or the esteemed Gregg Sargent could provide specifics for the " shocking scale of corruption, wrongdoing, contempt for our democracy, endless official deception and skirting of criminality" that it "documented" ?

( I do love the phrase "skirting of criminality")

This was a criminal investigation that found no underlying crime. The President cooperated with it fully, and unlike his predecessors, withheld no information from it based on Executive privilege.

The "plausibility" of a crime is an interesting word choice. Like "collusion" it has no particular legal meaning or significance. The legal standard for prosecutorial intervention is "probable cause" a well-defined term with specific legal meaning. In the case at hand, the investigation determined that no probable cause was found for any crime.

The notion that the Congress is "obligated" (sic) to impeach the President is contrary to the Constitution, as any "constitutional scholar" should know. Congress has complete discretion in the matter , and though some Democrat voices call for it, my very strong impression is that no such action will be initiated, even despite the urgent need of some Committee chairmen for something to coverup or rationalize their claims of certain knowledge of crime - the specifics of which they have not yet divulged, probably because they have no factual substantiation (and a two year investigation found none).

I do like these, so ponderously embellished and academic- sounding distortions of simple facts. This is mere propaganda suitable only for ill-informed, credulous minds. That said, some here appear to have a taste for it

hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 02:17 pm
@Brand X,
Greenwald wrote:
Everyone knows the scandal's key was the claim that Trump election-conspired with Russia and that he and his key associates were Russian assets.

I don't find this accurate. Sure, there were people who outlined how this could be possible, but the intent of the investigation was to establish what really happened, not to prove any particular conjecture. We know that Russia attempted to undermine the election, we know they helped Trump, we know Trump's team was rather sanguine about the whole thing, and we know that Trump ordered various people to stonewall the investigation.
Quote:
It shows how sweeping an investigation it was, yet still came up empty on this

All this means is that people who believed there might be an actual conspiracy will have to be satisfied with informal but not illegal collusion. I don't see how this leads to Trump's re-election.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 02:30 pm
@Brand X,
Actually Corsi is not out of the woods yet, he is part of the redacted parts of the Mueller report. Also, Team Trump, wanted to conspire with Russia, tried to conspire with Russia but like everything else they do, they were too unorganized to do the job right.

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-report-donald-trump-takeaways/

On the obstruction, there is a clear case congress could and should bring to impeachment.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:26 pm
@revelette1,
That is incorrect. There clearly was no obstruction.

Obstruction is when someone tries to interfere with an investigation that the government is pursuing, not when the government decides to stop pursuing an investigation.

And the Democrats have already set the precedent that the remedy for obstruction is not removal from office, but a $25,000 fine.

So if you ever do manage to prove obstruction (good luck with that), just have Trump cut a check.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:27 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
I just want there to be some accountability at some point for this administration.

It's not like the Trump Administration has even done anything wrong to be held accountable for, but since a $25,000 fine was enough accountability for Bill Clinton, then that will be enough accountability for Trump as well (if he ever does something wrong, that is).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:28 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
America must, somehow, return to earlier consensus on the rule of law and on fighting corruption at the top.

The first step in that is outlawing the Democratic Party. There can't be rule of law so long as Democrats continue to corrupt the system.


blatham wrote:
if such demands from Dems (and from the sane and moral conservatives) look likely to aid Trump's chances of a second term, then it is absolutely certain that much greater damage to democracy will unfold.

Democracy is fine. It is delusional leftism that is in danger.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:29 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
I spoke to Bobbitt at length about the latest revelations. The upshot: Bobbitt now believes it's "plausible" that Trump committed impeachable offenses and that the House of Representatives is obligated to proceed from this premise.

Hardly plausible. Obstruction is when someone tries to interfere with an investigation that the government is trying to pursue, not when the government elects to stop pursuing an investigation.

Even if Trump had actually committed obstruction, the Democrats have already set the precedent that the penalty for obstruction is not removal from office, but rather to pay a $25,000 fine.

So if you ever manage to prove actual obstruction (good luck with that) just have Trump cut a check for $25,000 and we're all good.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:32 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
the intent of the investigation was to establish what really happened, not to prove any particular conjecture.

That is incorrect. The only intent that the Democrats had in pushing this investigation was to harm people who disagree with them.


hightor wrote:
I don't see how this leads to Trump's re-election.

The voters will explain it in 2020.

Then in 2024, 2028, and 2032 the voters will explain that we need to continue keeping Republicans in charge.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Apr, 2019 07:17 am
Only the very best people
Quote:
Quote:
One of President Donald Trump's picks to serve on the Federal Reserve Board has written that women should be banned from refereeing, announcing or beer vending at men's college basketball games, asking if there was any area in life "where men can take vacation from women."

Stephen Moore, an economic commentator and former Trump campaign adviser, made those and similar comments in several columns reviewed by CNN's KFile that were published on the website of the conservative National Review magazine in 2001, twice in 2002 and 2003.


CNN's report found a missive Moore wrote in March 2002 on the March Madness college-basketball tournament, in which the Republican pundit presented his case for removing "un-American" aspects of it. The first proposed "rule" was banning women.

"Here's the rule change I propose: No more women refs, no women announcers, no women beer venders, no women anything," he wrote at the time. "There is, of course, an exception to this rule. Women are permitted to participate, if and only if, they look like Bonnie Bernstein. The fact that Bonnie knows nothing about basketball is entirely irrelevant." CNN also found a later missive in which Moore wrote that Bernstein, a CBS sports journalist at the time, should wear halter tops.
Benen
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Apr, 2019 07:56 am
Supreme Court to decide fate of citizenship question on 2020 census

Quote:
Just weeks before the 2020 census questionnaire goes to print, the U.S. Supreme Court will decide whether the Trump administration can ask about citizenship.

Oral arguments in the case Tuesday will center on how the government can get the most accurate headcount -- and whom the census is supposed to be counting.

The stakes are significant because the census determines the apportionment of seats in Congress and how billions in federal tax dollars are distributed over the next decade.
 

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