blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 05:53 am
A thoughtful discussion on Warren from the folks at NYMag

Here's one quote from Ed Kilgore with which I am on board
Quote:
Ed: All I’m saying is that if primary voters eventually throw up their hands and admit “electability” is impossible to determine, being the candidate everyone would actually like to see in the White House is a pretty big asset.
Yes. Precisely why she would be my choice.

maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 05:59 am
If Bernie wins in 2020 one of my favorite things about his presidency will be watching his most fervent supporters be disappointed repeatedly. It is impossible for him to live up to the expectations his sycophants are placing on him and I’ll enjoy watching them if he wins.

I know that sounds mean, and I’m not proud to think this, but it’s honest.

If for no other reason, this is enough for Bernie to get my vote in 11/2020.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:16 am
@maporsche,
Naughty naughty naughty
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:23 am
@maporsche,
If an establishment Dem wins I will take no pleasure watching as we all circle the drain. I think it will amount to the final surrender to the oligarchs and Republicans.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:25 am
@blatham,
Concerning Warren, I've heard two comments repeatedly — 1) she's needed in the Senate and 2) she's too angry (I've heard this from women).

I'm warming up to her, though. I like her no-nonsense, informative campaigning style. I don't like it when she tries to appear "folksy". I do think she could defeat Trump if she ignores the personal attacks and stays on message.



blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:26 am
Quote:
News Leaders Fight Back Against Trump’s Claims That Journos Wrong On Mueller

NEW YORK (AP) — News industry leaders are fighting back against the charge by President Donald Trump and his supporters that the administration’s summation of special counsel Robert Mueller’s report proved that journalists were “so wrong for so long” in their coverage of the Russia investigation.

The latest to weigh in was Steve Coll, dean of Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism, who wrote in a New Yorker magazine essay this week that it’s wrong to conclude journalism failed because Mueller did not charge Trump with conspiring with Russians to influence the 2016 election. The New York Times and The Washington Post shared a Pulitzer Prize, awarded by Columbia in 2018, for their reporting on the issue, a prize Trump says should be taken away.

Complicating the issue is the broad definition of the news media circa 2019, encompassing everything from painstakingly sourced investigative stories to overheated tweets to opinionated pundits.

“It’s premature to pronounce this coverage as some kind of epic press failure,” said Nancy Gibbs, former Time magazine editor and a Harvard University professor of press, politics and public policy. People angered by the press’ role in investigating the president will use Mueller’s findings as a lever in any way they can, she said.

“That doesn’t mean that they’re right,” Gibbs said.

The phrase “so wrong for so long” was used by White House Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney during a CNN appearance on Sunday. He said “we need to figure out” what happened with reporting on the story. Sean Davis, co-founder of the Federalist online magazine, said the same thing in the lead of a Wall Street Journal editorial earlier in the week that argued “America’s blue-chip journalists botched the entire story.” The president retweeted his story.

“I’m not sure what you’re saying the media got wrong,” replied CNN’s Jake Tapper. “The media reported the investigation was ongoing. Other than the people in the media on the left, not on this network, I don’t know anybody who got anything wrong. We didn’t say there was conspiracy. We said that Mueller was investigating conspiracy.”

Mulvaney, without offering specifics, said to Tapper that “if that’s your recollection of history, that’s great.

“Face it, the media got this wrong,” he said. “It’s OK, people get stuff wrong all the time. Just not at this level.”

There were obviously disputed individual stories along the way. ABC suspended Brian Ross for a story wrongly alleging that Trump had asked former national security adviser Michael Flynn to discuss foreign policy with the Russians before he was elected. Three CNN journalists resigned over a story falsely linking a Trump aide to a Russian investment fund. The special counsel’s office denied a Buzzfeed report that it had evidence Trump had directed lawyer Michael Cohen to lie to Congress over a Moscow office project.

Yet much of what the public learned over the past two years on the story was the result of relentless digging by reporters.

In tweets over the past week, Trump repeated his contention that the mainstream media is the enemy of the people, and said the Times’ and Post’s Pulitzers should be stripped. The Times, in response, tweeted a picture of its Pulitzer winners and noted that every story cited in their prize-winning entry has been proven correct.

Top editors at the Times and Post, Dean Baquet and Marty Baron, and CNN chief Jeff Zucker offered similar statements noting it was their organizations’ job to show what people in power are doing, and prosecutors’ responsibility to determine what is legal or illegal.

“A sitting president’s own Justice Department investigated his campaign for collusion with a hostile nation,” Zucker said. “That’s not enormous because the media says so. That’s enormous because it’s unprecedented.”

Not every top news executive was eager to get involved; representatives for news presidents at ABC, CBS and NBC either turned down or didn’t reply to interview requests. “We’re going to keep doing our job,” MSNBC President Phil Griffin said in a statement.

“The coverage of the investigation did include embarrassments — specious chyrons, tendentious talking heads and retracted scoops, among them,” Columbia’s Coll wrote. “Yet it does not follow that American journalism failed because the best-resourced newsrooms in the nation chose to report assiduously on the Mueller investigation and its subjects, only to learn that Mueller did not prove that Trump had conspired with Russia.”

If there’s any media soul-searching to be done, it may involve cable news. In the Trump era, Fox News and MSNBC are frequently the most-watched cable networks in general, both appealing to different camps.

Fox News Channel’s Sean Hannity has been Trump’s biggest advocate on cable news, making him a target for the president’s opponents. Yet MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow was criticized this week by Slate’s Willa Paskin, who said turning on her show “was like discovering a Facebook friend is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.” She said that while Maddow’s audience was not as malignant as Hannity’s, “more than one cable news host can disservice their audience at the same time.”

Harvard’s Gibbs recalls watching reporters and pundits sitting side-by-side on cable panels, with roles confused when pundits were asked what they were hearing and reporters questioned about what they thought.

Journalists have long believed that readers and viewers understand the difference between reporting and commentary, Coll said.

“It would be unrealistic to expect them to make such a distinction now,” he said.
TPM

It is critically important to grasp how constant attacks on mainstream media (meaning any/all media not directly aligned with the right) serve the financial and political purposes of the right wing media world and the GOP. It is how they have captured their base. It's why so many right wing posters here are just downright stupid, deeply misinformed and angry at the wrong things. If folks haven't read the NYT 3 part piece on Murdoch, please do.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:35 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Concerning Warren, I've heard two comments repeatedly — 1) she's needed in the Senate and 2) she's too angry (I've heard this from women).

I'm warming up to her, though. I like her no-nonsense, informative campaigning style. I don't like it when she tries to appear "folksy". I do think she could defeat Trump if she ignores the personal attacks and stays on message.

She is or would be extremely valuable in the Senate. But it seems to me that argues for her value as head of state. The "angry" thing I just don't get but even though you've heard this from women my sense is that this is straight up misogyny - behaviors OK in a male not OK in a female. And that's my only real concern with her candidacy (or that of any other woman running). If we were in normal circumstances and if I was part of the Dem party down south, I would demand a female candidate. But as Trump and the modern GOP pose such a risk of a myriad range of destructive possibilities, I don't care who takes him down.

I like her too. Very much.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 10:32 am
@blatham,
Quote:
The "angry" thing I just don't get but even though you've heard this from women my sense is that this is straight up misogyny - behaviors OK in a male not OK in a female.

Well, I feel that way about Sanders sometimes. I think it has to do with the segments that are aired in the media. If every time you see a candidate they're scowling and threatening the establishment with the just hand of righteous vengeance you might get an inaccurate impression, not based on the entirety of their public performance.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 10:39 am
@hightor,
It's nice having you around. You commonly make some astute point which hadn't occurred to me.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 11:24 am
@blatham,
Quote:
which hadn't occurred to me.

Nothing occurs to you. Shills have scripts.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 06:58 pm
Try listening to radio most of which has been bought by right wing billionaires. In rural areas its the only news sources they can get which is why they think Trump is the greatest thing since Lincoln. Most of them make fox news seem ultraliberal. I live in a rural area and speak from experence.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2019 11:43 pm
@hightor,
There's certainly no reason to get angry about anything these days, is there?
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 02:25 am
@Olivier5,
There's always a reason to get angry and enough reason to stay angry if you want. I think the point gets raised because it so easily slips into caricature — the red-faced, blustering politician on a soapbox, working up the crowd with a string of empty promises. Outrage is certainly an understandable reaction to the depressing events in the news but I don't think it's really an effective response. Stoking the anger of the electorate is a hallowed populist tactic but some of us prefer leaders who exhibit traits like patience, perspective, and measured self-control. Adults, in other words.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 02:37 am
Pete Buttigieg Faces Scrutiny Over ‘All Lives Matter’ Remark in 2015

Apparently there is no context where anyone can use these three words in a sentence and not be suspected of racism. Pathetic.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 02:54 am
@hightor,
The sooner everyone starts disregarding the left's silly accusations of racism and misogyny, the better off we'll all be.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 03:07 am
@hightor,
I notice that the article specifies that the BLM goon squad started in reaction to the cases of justified self defense by Officer Wilson and Mr. Zimmerman.

Just as I've always said, these thugs are objecting to the idea of law enforcement protecting themselves when a black person tries to murder them.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 03:29 am
@hightor,

Someone very simply asks, “Do black lives matter?”

Yes or no.

The inability to just simply say yes tells me a lot about a person.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 03:30 am
@hightor,
Quote:
some of us prefer leaders who exhibit traits like patience, perspective, and measured self-control.

Yes, but to not feel any anger at all about the present state of US (and world) politics is to be either complicit or out of touch. I agree it shouldn't overcome you entirely until foam drips from your mouth and it clouds your judgment, but a little dose of anger is only natural and healthy. And women are allowed to be angry too, I don't see it as non-ladylike.

I also agree with your point that the media (broad generality here) tends to oversimplify and caricature, and thus they tend to select the most "angry" segments in their representation of Warren or Sanders, probably because it sells better than cogent analysis. Patience and perspective don't make for effective clickbait or exciting TV segments. They perhaps also oversimplify out of intellectual laziness. It would be naïve to take such lazy, caricatural media narrative as the ultimate truth about Warren or Sanders.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 03:43 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Someone very simply asks, “Do black lives matter?”

That wasn't the context.
Quote:
The inability to just simply say yes tells me a lot about a person.

He wasn't being asked to answer that question.

That's my point. Obviously if an activist confronts you and asks, "Do black lives matter" the only acceptable response is "Yes". But to have the phrase removed from a paragraph and presented as an isolated and contemptible statement is sophistry.

Do all lives matter? Apparently not to all people. And that's the root of the problem.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2019 03:51 am
@hightor,
‘All lives matter’ is an intentional, minimalizing rebuttal to ‘black lives matter.’ That’s how he used it, but it was slyly inserted.
 

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