georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 11:46 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Quote:
Comey didn't accuse Hillary of "gross negligence" in her handling of large numbers highly classified documents and e mails. Gross negligence is the standard for criminal action, and he studiously avoided it, saying she was extremely careless or something like that.

It doesn't matter, by the time Comey was through with the saga of Clinton's emails it was labelled gross negligence in all but name, it went on forever and then he wasn't through, he had to announce a reopening of email investigation right at the end of the campaign season which also helped get Trump elected.

I am saying we should have what Mueller investigated and why so and so was or was not charged and the reasons why. Just like we did with Comey's announcement. We deserve to know.

The problem here is that no details of the Clinton investigation were ever released. Again in accordance with standard legal practice. The Clinton "investigation" was very different in character from the Mueller investigation. No seizure of the computers and servers; no sworn testimony; no intermediate charges for those obviously involved; etc. In short a casual preplanned whitewash.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:07 pm
@georgeob1,
I am backtracking and trying to find where Starr first gave his report to the attorney general and the attorney general decides what to be released. I found a timeline of the Clinton Impeachment (over an affair no less) and from what I can tell, Starr released his report to Congress, all 18 boxes and 445 pages. Did he first get permission? Has the laws changed since then?

Quote:
September 11, 1998: The House of Representative votes to receive the Starr report. The House Judiciary Committee takes possession of the 18 boxes of materials and promptly releases the first 445 pages to the public.

September 18, 1998: Over Democrats' objections, the House Judiciary Committee agrees to release President Clinton's videotaped grand jury testimony and more than 3,000 pages of supporting material from the Starr report, including sexually explicit testimony from Monica Lewinsky.



http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/resources/lewinsky/timeline/

Here is a better timeline as it states who appointed Starr in the first place which was then Attorney General Reno.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1998/nov/18/clinton.usa
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:15 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
Has the laws changed since then?

Yep. But don't let the laws stop you. Laughing
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:19 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I am backtracking and trying to find where Starr first gave his report to the attorney general and the attorney general decides what to be released. I found a timeline of the Clinton Impeachment (over an affair no less) and from what I can tell, Starr released his report to Congress, all 18 boxes and 445 pages. Did he first get permission? Has the laws changed since then?


Starr's investigation was done under a special legislative action that is distinct from the current law governing Appointed Special Counsels. However I don't know the particulars of any differences. The main difference was that the Starr investigation report included criminal charges for perjury. Whereas the recent Trump investigation yielded no criminal referrals.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:22 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Additionally, Trump himself said to release the entire report. Not that I trust him
That would be wise.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:28 pm
OK, I searched and got my own answers. Should have done that to start with.

Apparently after the Clinton fiasco Congress decided that more restrictions needed to be put in place of any release of information to the public of any special prosecutors reports.

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2019/03/14/should-the-mueller-report-be-made-public-does-anyone-remember-kenneth-starr/

So, I guess at the end of the day, in the coming weeks we will have see what is allowed to be released. I haven't read the whole thing, there is a link embedded in the above link to the laws governoring this subject.

As it is, we don't know enough to be able to draw any conclusions other than "no collusion" was proven.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:40 pm
Quote:
What is the full list of things Trump did that might have constituted obstruction of justice, and what’s the argument for why they don’t? Barr’s letter says Mueller declined to make a determination on whether the president obstructed justice, so Barr decided that he didn’t. Barr also says that most of Trump’s actions in this area have been publicly reported. That would have to include his urging then-FBI Director James B. Comey to lay off the investigation of Michael Flynn, his reported attempt to get Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats to pressure the FBI to back off Flynn, and his firing of Comey, which he told both a national TV audience and the Russian foreign minister and ambassador he did in order to quash the Russia investigation. So what did Trump do that hasn’t yet been publicly reported?

Why did Trump lie so often about Russia if it was all innocent? While running for president, praising Vladimir Putin and suggesting the lifting of sanctions on Russia, Trump was pursuing an enormously lucrative deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. He repeatedly lied about it, claiming he was actively avoiding doing business there. He also personally dictated a false statement about the infamous Trump Tower meeting at which his son, son-in-law and campaign chairman sought damaging information on Hillary Clinton they had been told was coming from the Russian government. Once those lies were revealed, Trump insisted that the underlying facts he was lying to cover up were in fact perfectly innocent. So why did he try to conceal them?

Why did so many Trump associates lie about their contacts with Russians? ...

What else has Mueller referred to other prosecutors that we don’t already know about?...

Will Mueller testify before Congress?...

What happened to the Trump campaign polling data Manafort passed to Kilimnik?...

Is there any reason to think Russia won’t try to help Trump get reelected?...
WP


0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:43 pm
I think the approate committees should have the full report. Anything else will be republican obstructionism.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:45 pm
This political historian has New Zealand figured out
Quote:
NRATV’s Grant Stinchfield: New Zealand is “the equivalent of a dictatorship” and “what tyranny looks like” after proposed assault weapons ban


Edit: After two teenage survivors of the Parkland school shooting committed suicide, we learn today that the father of a victim from Sandy Hook has done so as well. You gun nuts are ******* evil.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:45 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Anything else will be republican obstructionism.

What about all the Democratic lies? Nothing?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:49 pm
And, as I said above, here it is
Quote:
Fox's Huckabee calls Trump/Russia investigation an "attempted coup d'etat" and demands Republicans investigate the Justice Department and FBI
MM Not that these assholes are predictable or anything.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 12:50 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
not that these assholes are predictable or anything.

You have proven that daily.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 01:30 pm
@revelette1,
We may be conflating two very different "Clinton" investigations, i.e. the original Starr report regarding President Bill Clinton and the subsequent investigation of SECSTATE Hillary Clinton's handling of classified material on a private server ( something expressly forbidden by law) In the latter case the investigation was done nominally by the Justice Department, and while no closure report was issued by the AG Loretta Lynch, FBI Director Comey exonerated her in a rather vague and ambiguous way, later reopeneing the investigation and ended it without formal closure.

The second Clinton investigation is more related to the recently completed Mueller investigation of Trump in that both involved then opposing candidates for the presidency, both were staffed by largely the same core of FBI and Justice Dept. officials, and both yielded no criminal findings on the targets of the investigations. The Hillary investigation was done rather quickly and informally =, while the second took almost two years and involved very formal and rigorous methods, including unannounced FBI raids on the homes and offices of potential witnesses. This was in stark contrast to the Hillary investigation in which most of the key witnesses were treated as legal counsel for the target, and therefore somewhat immune to questioning, and the computers & servers involved were left in the hands of the targeted people and were subsequently destroyed by them along with thousands of unexamined files. No detsailed report of the evidence and findings in the Hillary investigation was ever published.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 01:45 pm
Quote:
(...)

On Saturday, the left-wing writer Matt Taibbi published a widely shared essay calling Russiagate “this generation’s W.M.D.,” a national security hoax, abetted by a credulous media, akin to the one that justified the Iraq War. “The biggest thing this affair has uncovered so far is Donald Trump paying off a porn star,” he wrote.

That’s silly. The biggest thing this affair has uncovered is that throughout much of the presidential campaign, Trump was seeking to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. The deal had the potential to make hundreds of millions of dollars for the Trump Organization, and Trump’s lawyer solicited the Russian government’s help to get it done. After the election, Trump lied about the deal to the American people. Vladimir Putin knew the truth, giving him leverage over Trump. Is that the only leverage he had?

(...)

nyt/goldberg

coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 01:46 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
nyt/goldberg

Who is going to listen to liars? Not me.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:00 pm
@coldjoint,
Thats kind of ironic coming from someone like joint who dotes on every word from the biggest liar of them all donnie trump.
thack45
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:32 pm
@coldjoint,
Were the fake news media lying when they reported Mueller's findings as summarized by the AG?
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:32 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
biggest liar of them all donnie trump.

Trump said there was no collusion, who lied? You morons f^cked up again. The mainstream medias reputation is totally gone. You ought to lay low, after all you have said you are looking rather gullible and stupid. Two problems only you can fix.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:34 pm
@thack45,
Quote:
Were the fake news media lying when they reported Mueller's findings as summarized by the AG?

Only because they couldn't lie about it.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:35 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
You gun nuts are ******* evil

I don't see them wishing death on anyone. I have seen you do that. Who is evil?
 

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