edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 06:21 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You and plenty of others here consider me a bad guy because I used to feel quite differently about a few political issues.

You don’t think a person can change her mind.

Sirota did.
I did.

A change of heart in politics is nothing.

Why was it ok for Obama and Clinton and Biden, but not Sirota and Lash?

The hypocrisy!!

I see people quote lash from years back as a form of personal aggression. Why the mods allow it I dunno. In 2016, whenever I mentioned one of Clinton's bad points, the standard answer was: She's evolved. But not lash, eh?
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 06:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
Not Biden either I guess.

And YOU are (or were) the one insisting that Obama and Clinton COULDNT have evolved.

I dont care Sirkota’s evolution; just what he’s done since December when he seceetely was working for Sanders (according to the Sanders campaign today).
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 06:45 pm
@maporsche,
The don't knows don't know, either way. They cannot legitimately be lumped with people having another opinion. That's why the category exists in every poll and is typically reported independently. Doing otherwise is to misrepresent the data.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 06:56 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
You don’t think a person can change her mind.
Nope. Don't think that.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 06:58 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Not to mention, it doesn’t much square with Bernie’s plea to his supporters to be respectful and set old grudges aside.
Yes, that's the worrisome element here. As his deletion of so many tweets.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 07:21 pm
@blatham,
SOP for private citizens of any stripe joining campaigns.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Mar, 2019 07:34 pm
You Retweeted

Briahna Joy Gray
@briebriejoy
·
2h
I'm late to post -- it's been a busy day -- but I couldn't be more excited to join the Sanders 2020 team! It was the progressive vision embodied by Sanders' 2016 campaign that sparked my writing career, & it's humbling to have the opportunity to contribute to this movement!
Quote Tweet
Ro Khanna
@RoKhanna
Congratulations to these amazing women who have just joined @BernieSanders' 2020 national leadership team!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 06:31 am
@Lash,
Not a tradition I know of, though I may have missed earlier examples. Can you provide any?

Edit: Here's a piece on Sirota and deletions. One graph:
Quote:
Sirota has been helping Sanders in advisory capacity for months, The Atlantic reported Tuesday afternoon, and hadn’t disclosed his Sanders work while trashing his opponents in recent months. Sirota deleted tweets critical of other candidates after the magazine reached out, and Sanders’ campaign didn’t acknowledge Sirota’s role until asked by the publication.
TPM Could be coincidental but it seems unlikely.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 06:34 am
Quote:
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee raked in $11.6 million this February, smashing the record from every previous February, even ones during election years.

According to a Wednesday Politico report, much of it came from the grassroots network and online donations.
Politico

That's very encouraging.
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 09:30 am
@blatham,
I've already gave twice to the DNC, but I haven't to any of the those who announced their intention to run for office in 2020.
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 09:39 am
@edgarblythe,
I really don't want to get into this, but I feel you and Lash are misrepresenting the situation to your own advantage.

The reason it was hard to buy Lash's reformation was because she didn't act too reformed. She went after the same people in the same manner that she did way back when she was republican or conservative. So it seemed like she was just using the Bernie progressive bandwagon to go after her long time enemies and yet able to point to her progressive bona fides. She rarely (sometimes she goes after Trump but rarely) goes after the republicans in the same manner. As for myself, I have accepted her views as she states them, it took a while, but I do for whatever that it is worth or not.

You have stated the reason you go after democrats is because you still see a ray of hope so to speak, you gave up on republicans long ago. I don't think Lash likes any democrat unless they are part of the new progressive revolution and does not see a ray of hope for established democrats. I think she thinks we should elect all new progressives so to speak and vote out all established Democrats.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 09:59 am
@blatham,
Sanders is just another, typical, sleazy politician who only tells the truth when it's dragged out of him.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:21 am
Why did Bush go to war in Iraq?
No, it wasn't because of WMDs, democracy or Iraqi oil. The real reason is much more sinister than that.

Ahsan I Butt by Ahsan I Butt
10 hours ago
Then President George W Bush is seen addressing the US Army soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas about the possibility of military action against Iraq in January 2003 [File: Jeff Mitchell/Reuters]
Then President George W Bush is seen addressing the US Army soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas about the possibility of military action against Iraq in January 2003 [File: Jeff Mitchell/Reuters]

Sixteen years after the United States invaded Iraq and left a trail of destruction and chaos in the country and the region, one aspect of the war remains criminally underexamined: why was it fought in the first place? What did the Bush administration hope to get out of the war?

The official, and widely-accepted, story remains that Washington was motivated by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programme. His nuclear capabilities, especially, were deemed sufficiently alarming to incite the war. As then US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, "We do not want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

Despite Saddam not having an active WMD programme, this explanation has found support among some International Relations scholars, who say that while the Bush administration was wrong about Saddam's WMD capabilities, it was sincerely wrong. Intelligence is a complicated, murky enterprise, the argument goes, and given the foreboding shadow of the 9/11 attacks, the US government reasonably, if tragically, misread the evidence on the dangers Saddam posed.

There is a major problem with this thesis: there is no evidence for it, beyond the words of the Bush officials themselves. And since we know the administration was engaged in a widespread campaign of deception and propaganda in the run-up to the Iraq war, there is little reason to believe them.

My investigation into the causes of the war finds that it had little to do with fear of WMDs - or other purported goals, such as a desire to "spread democracy" or satisfy the oil or Israel lobbies. Rather, the Bush administration invaded Iraq for its demonstration effect.

A quick and decisive victory in the heart of the Arab world would send a message to all countries, especially to recalcitrant regimes such as Syria, Libya, Iran, or North Korea, that American hegemony was here to stay. Put simply, the Iraq war was motivated by a desire to (re)establish American standing as the world's leading power.

Indeed, even before 9/11, then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld saw Iraq through the prism of status and reputation, variously arguing in February and July 2001 that ousting Saddam would "enhance US credibility and influence throughout the region" and "demonstrate what US policy is all about".

These hypotheticals were catalysed into reality by September 11, when symbols of American military and economic dominance were destroyed. Driven by humiliation, the Bush administration felt that the US needed to reassert its position as an unchallengeable hegemon.

The only way to send a message so menacing was a swashbuckling victory in war. Crucially, however, Afghanistan was not enough: it was simply too weak a state. As prison bullies know, a fearsome reputation is not acquired by beating up the weakest in the yard. Or as Rumsfeld put it on the evening of 9/11, "We need to bomb something else to prove that we're, you know, big and strong and not going to be pushed around by these kinds of attacks."

Moreover, Afghanistan was a "fair" war, a tit-for-tat response to the Taliban's provision of sanctuary to al-Qaeda's leadership. Rumsfeld, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, and Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith considered restricting retaliation to Afghanistan dangerously "limited", "meager", and "narrow". Doing so, they alleged, "may be perceived as a sign of weakness rather than strength" and prove to "embolden rather than discourage regimes" opposed to the US. They knew that sending a message of unbridled hegemony entailed a disproportionate response to 9/11, one that had to extend beyond Afghanistan.

Iraq fit the bill both because it was more powerful than Afghanistan and because it had been in neoconservative crosshairs since George HW Bush declined to press on to Baghdad in 1991. A regime remaining defiant despite a military defeat was barely tolerable before 9/11. Afterwards, however, it became untenable.

That Iraq was attacked for its demonstration effect is attested to by several sources, not least the principals themselves - in private. A senior administration official told a reporter, off the record, that "Iraq is not just about Iraq", rather "it was of a type", including Iran, Syria, and North Korea.

In a memo issued on September 30, 2001, Rumsfeld advised Bush that "the USG [US government] should envision a goal along these lines: New regimes in Afghanistan and another key State [or two] that supports terrorism [to strengthen political and military efforts to change policies elsewhere]".

Feith wrote to Rumsfeld in October 2001 that action against Iraq would make it easier to "confront - politically, militarily, or otherwise" Libya and Syria. As for then-Vice President Dick Cheney, one close adviser revealed that his thinking behind the war was to show: "We are able and willing to strike at someone. That sends a very powerful message."

In a 2002 column, Jonah Goldberg coined the "Ledeen Doctrine", named after neoconservative historian Michael Ledeen. The "doctrine" states: "Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business."

It may be discomfiting to Americans to say nothing of millions of Iraqis that the Bush administration spent their blood and treasure for a war inspired by the Ledeen Doctrine. Did the US really start a war - one that cost trillions of dollars, killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, destabilised the region, and helped create the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) - just to prove a point?

More uncomfortable still is that the Bush administration used WMDs as a cover, with equal parts fearmongering and strategic misrepresentation - lying - to exact the desired political effect. Indeed, some US economists consider the notion that the Bush administration deliberately misled the country and the globe into war in Iraq to be a "conspiracy theory", on par with beliefs that President Barack Obama was born outside the US or that the Holocaust did not occur.

But this, sadly, is no conspiracy theory. Even Bush officials have sometimes dropped their guard. Feith confessed in 2006 that "the rationale for the war didn't hinge on the details of this intelligence even though the details of the intelligence at times became elements of the public presentation".

That the administration used the fear of WMDs and terrorism to fight a war for hegemony should be acknowledged by an American political establishment eager to rehabilitate George W Bush amid the rule of Donald Trump, not least because John Bolton, Trump's national security adviser, seems eager to employ similar methods to similar ends in Iran.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/bush-war-iraq-190318150236739.html?fbclid=IwAR2MA-i6H0ozt31JWRAbxJ-VU0PqX5C_99oTWIDww1hbvTL9UtRqJvSeTbE
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:37 am
People set to trash Bernie are setting themselves up for prolonged conservative rule and oligarchy.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:41 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

People set to trash Bernie are setting themselves up for prolonged conservative rule and oligarchy.


That could be said about all people trashing Democrats.

If Bernie doesn't win the primary, do you think Trump will win?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:41 am
@revelette1,
You expected me to change my opinion of Hillary Clinton? I didn’t. I changed my mind about the necessity of zillions of dollars we spend on our military. You expected me to suddenly gain respect for Nancy Pelosi? I didn’t. I just now see that both parties are driven by the same moneybagged overlords. You expected me to suddenly believe that Fox News was the only corrupt news org? I didn’t. I know for a fact that most of them are directed by their owners.

I used to think billionaires earned their money, and that was none of my business. I now see that corrupt politicians found ways to amend certain laws that cause excess money to flow up, while cutting out the middle class. THAT is my business and I’m hellbent to throw a wrench in that disgusting party.

Hilary still sucks, and she magnanimously proved during her dirty campaign.
Below viewing threshold (view)
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:44 am
@revelette1,
Just speaking to your idea that I’d never vote for an establishment Dem: if they stop taking money from the pharmaceutical industry and prove that they’re committed to helping regular people + make real verifiable moves to save this ailing planet, I’ll definitely consider them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:48 am
@revelette1,
Right.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 10:59 am
@edgarblythe,
I don't think there is anything in that piece which hasn't been understood for a long while, Edgar. Even if a news follower had been unaware of the neoconservative writings on America's "proper" international role (I only became aware of this in 2002 after reading Anatol Lieven in the London Review of Books) the early drive to propagandize Hans Blix and his findings made it clear to most of us on the left the game that was afoot.
 

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