@blatham,
blatham wrote:
I know that is what you believe, george. But you've really put no work into studying media and it is obvious that the media you do attend to is Fox or that which follows the same patterns of behavior ("Pocahontas", "Spartacus" - just two tip-offs in the last day). You've bought the propaganda package. And we both know that if I were to suggest studies and writings that analyze what we are now talking about, you won't go anywhere near them. To you, they couldn't be right, axiomatically.
It's no big thing. After all these years, I know I'm not going to move you on this stuff. You're a good-hearted chap and you are, in most ways, a smart and engaging fellow. One day you and I and Trump will be corpses. The only real difference is that one of us, Trump, will be trying to **** other corpses, if they have big, grey tits
You don't know my reading or viewing habits, and I think we both know the "objective" merits of he "studies and writings" to which you refer and which you quote with such abandon here.
The fact is I have, over the past several months, become very weary of all the TV media. When I do watch, I usually scan all the main vendors, including Fox, CNN and MSMBC. The contrasts in the both the material they select and in the various slants they put on what they do address it is at once stark, amusing and depressing. They all spew out a lot of propaganda, though on Fox it is a bit more segregated from the news than in the other sources ( Hannity & others are pure propaganda, while Baier & Wallace & others do report events with some objectivity)
I got "Pocahontas & Spartacus" from well-publicized Trump quotes , though no particular intelligence or insight is or was required to either make or associate these characterizations with the comic, pathetic and pretentious posturing's of Elizabeth Warren and Corey Booker ( I saw his ridiculous, knowingly deceptive and self-aggrandizing, self-described "Spartacus Moment" during the Senate Justice Committee hearings on then candidate Kavanaugh, and found it to be unforgettable. The action of your own prejudices and the resulting blindness is evident in your "deduction" of my supposed source frankly says more about you than me.
The character of political discourse in the country now - and on these threads - has become depressingly partisan, filled with invective and the ludicrous (to anyone with an understanding of human history) assumption that all that is good or desirable is on one side and all that is bad or evil on the other.
There's a wonderful segment in Thucydides' "Peloponnesian War" in which he describes the breakdown of civic order in Corcyra (now Corfu) in events that directly led to the generation-long, and tragic, civil War between Athens and Sparta, which brought down Greek civilization. It is sadly reflective of current events, both in the U.S. and Europe. I looked it up and here's a few relevant segments from ~ 2,400 years ago ;
Words had to change their ordinary meaning and to take that which was now given them. Reckless audacity came to be considered the courage of a loyal ally; prudent hesitation, specious cowardice; moderation was held to be a cloak for unmanliness; ability to see all sides of a question, inaptness to act on any. Frantic violence became the attribute of manliness; cautious plotting, a justifiable means of self-defence. The advocate of extreme measures was always trustworthy;
…….
Indeed it is generally the case that men are readier to call rogues clever than simpletons honest, and are as ashamed of being the second as they are proud of being the first. The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention.
……
Thus every form of iniquity took root in the Hellenic countries by reason of the troubles. The ancient simplicity into which honour so largely entered was laughed down and disappeared; and society became divided into camps in which no man trusted his fellow. To put an end to this, there was neither promise to be depended upon, nor oath that could command.
….
. In the confusion into which life was now thrown in the cities, human nature, always rebelling against the law and now its master, gladly showed itself ungoverned in passion, above respect for justice, and the enemy of all superiority;
It's an interesting read and an apt description of contemporary events.
However, there may be some hope for us. I recall a year ago reading Ron Chernow' s biography of Alexander Hamilton (the one that inspired the Broadway show), and was struck by the similarity of George Washington's second term with today's events, beset as it was in the very fractious disputes between Federalists and Jeffersonians. It too read like an equally apt description of the current scene.
I agree that we're not likely to persuade each other of the merits of our respective views. However, I do fault your monotone condemnation of "the right" and your implicit assumption that the defects and contradictions of human nature somehow don't infect those whose political views you support. Both sides have their propaganda, and both are populated by human beings. I like Trump, not for what he says or how he presents himself, but rather for (most of) the political and economic policies he puts in place. That's where the debate should be.