hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 12:31 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
No, actually, I did provide evidence that the Clinton campaign ordered up and received favorable puff pieces.

I'm not sure why Greenwald thinks this is so damning. Journalists want to have access to candidates and candidates want to have good relations with media outlets which are largely in tune with the candidate's policy positions. If a liberal journalist, for instance EJ Dionne, were ignored and cut out of the campaign's information pipeline he wouldn't be able to highlight the candidate's stand on issues or policies, and he might even feel mildly insulted. Liberal people who read his column might pick up the ambiguity, wonder what was wrong, whether there was a problem. And being wined and dined doesn't necessarily mean a journalist is on the candidate's payroll,
Quote:
The following month, when she was at the Times, Haberman published two stories on Clinton’s vetting process; in this instance, Haberman’s stories were more sophisticated, nuanced, and even somewhat more critical than what the Clinton memo envisioned.

Whatever contact the Clinton campaign had with journalists, it was nowhere at the level of cooperation, encouragement, and outright support that later developed between F0x News and Trump. And as Greenwald points out the idea was to give the press something else to report on besides missing e-mails and negative stories about the foundation.
Quote:
All presidential campaigns have their favorite reporters, try to plant stories they want published, and attempt in multiple ways to curry favor with journalists. These tactics are certainly not unique to the Clinton campaign (liberals were furious in 2008 when journalists went to John McCain’s Arizona ranch for an off-the-record BBQ).
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 12:57 pm
@hightor,
We want vastly different things from news reporters, political candidates, and this country.

I want journalists independently investigating, researching, and writing stories of substance that are relevant to the lives of people locally, nationally, and globally—not fed to them by rich people for rich people about rich people.

It is ok with one type of person—and disgusting to people like me.



georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 12:58 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Whatever contact the Clinton campaign had with journalists, it was nowhere at the level of cooperation, encouragement, and outright support that later developed between F0x News and Trump. And as Greenwald points out the idea was to give the press something else to report on besides missing e-mails and negative stories about the foundation.


Or, as you could have added, exist today between the Washington Post, NYT, MSNBC and CNN and the Democrat leadership.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 01:04 pm
@georgeob1,
Except that Trump is the president.
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 01:08 pm
@hightor,
Meaningless point.

And they are the leaders of the House of Representatives and a flock of (rather strange) aspirants to the Presidency.
glitterbag
 
  6  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 01:18 pm
@hightor,
Trump's super power is his ability to shamelessly mock others with schoolboy taunts. Sadly, we are watching every shred of decency and honor dumped in an ash can because Republicans fear nicknames more than losing democracy.

hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 01:25 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I want journalists independently investigating, researching, and writing stories of substance that are relevant to the lives of people locally, nationally, and globally—not fed to them by rich people for rich people about rich people.

So do most people. Puff pieces about rich people hardly represent the bulk of the reporting going on today. And just because we can find alternative analyses by unaffiliated bloggers and researchers doesn't mean that their stories are necessarily true. There was that big story in the Nation, for instance, which inferred that an insider had given DNC files to Wikileaks because it was technologically impossible for such a volume of material to be hacked. Trump supporters had a field day with that discovery and because it originated from a left-leaning source it was picked up by anti-DNC leftists as well. Trouble is, it was flat out untrue.
Quote:
It is ok with one type of person—and disgusting to people like me.

It's ok with more than one type of person and I'm sure it disgusts people who aren't like you. Everything isn't binary.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 01:32 pm
@georgeob1,
You miss my point, sir. The liberal news organizations you refer to often have writers who function as cheerleaders, front-men, and defenders of liberal politicians and liberal policies. But the transparency of Trump's relationship to Hannity and Fox and the network's ability to influence him and drive his agenda is unprecedented and far from "meaningless".
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 02:17 pm
@georgeob1,
The source on your story (trafficked across right wing media at the time) was anonymous. Possibly honest (how could we know, intentions being invisible) but by his/her account
Quote:
“Fair is fair. I’m a conservative-leaning [person] [gender-identifying word redacted]. I don’t support anything this administration does. I don’t know much about the attorney general’s past, except she has a good reputation. But I really don’t like this executive’s office, so that said, politically, that’s where I’m at. But I just happened to be in a position to know firsthand what went down that day.”
Observer
And, as you now understand, the FBI is part of the "deep state" thus not worthy of trust. Heck, this could have been Comey's second cousin!

But in any case, you've drawn a conclusion about the motives or intentions of persons involved because you believe the meeting led to a particular AG decision. Here, you believe intentions are obvious yet you'll go not an inch towards a conclusion that Trump lies more than any other POTUS ever with now some 8000 lies or purposeful deceptions documented.
Quote:
No I don't [find yourself at a loss regarding revealed intentions.

Now you acknowledge that intentions are very often evident.
Quote:
Moreover I have equivalent impressions of your motives.
If you mean to suggest that I forward my political values, ideas and beliefs while writing here, sure. Who doesn't? If you are suggesting that I do this dishonestly - with the desire or intention to deceive then we won't talk again.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 02:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Or, as you could have added, exist today between the Washington Post, NYT, MSNBC and CNN and the Democrat leadership.

Anyone here recall a situation where Obama and Rachel Maddow talked on the phone every day or close to it or where Obama's statements were readily connected with correspondents' statements hours earlier from MSNBC or CNN? Anyone?

Anyone recall Chris Hayes or Jane Mayer or Maggie Haberman appearing up on stage at an Obama political event to voice support for Obama?




blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 02:57 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Trump's super power is his ability to shamelessly mock others with schoolboy taunts.
The following information on the sociopath is from a different piece than previously quoted:
Quote:
One of the most notable symptoms of ASPD is a lack of empathy. In response to another person’s feelings, they may come across as:

cold
unfeeling
callous
overly critical
harsh
People with ASPD don’t always realize how harmful their actions are. In other cases, they may simply not care that their actions hurt someone.

People with ASPD are often psychically or verbally abusive. They may physically harm people without any consideration of the resulting injuries to the other person.

Verbal abuse might include:

insults
deprecation
negative statements
public or private humiliation
Link Here
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 03:06 pm
Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) opposes impeaching President Trump, she told the Washington Post, her most forceful statement to date on the topic.

“I’m not for impeachment. This is news. I’m going to give you some news right now because I haven’t said this to any press person before,” Pelosi said. “But since you asked, and I’ve been thinking about this: Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country. And he’s just not worth it.”
TPM

As a justice issue alone, I think this is wrong. As a real world political matter right now, I think she's right. Justice issues on this matter and many, many others will continue to fall under assault with modern Republicans in power so any act that might encourage sympathy for this scoundrel and his supporters will only forward continued moral evil.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 03:07 pm
@blatham,
The pen is mightier than the sword.

It is much more powerful to use innuendo, connotation, and fabrication as truth from three or four ‘news outlets’ acting in concert.

Truth is lie, war is peace, good is bad.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 03:10 pm
Notice Pelosi rejecting impeachment?
If she believed the Russia/Trump collusion narrative we’ve paid half a billion dollars to follow up, would she let him walk?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-pelosi-idUSKBN1QS2JG
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 03:29 pm
Goodness. This is very funny. As I said earlier, the goal here is to cause likely Dem voters to have doubts about Beto, particularly with minority voters. It's all quite rich in ridicule-worthy suggestions eg "billionaire real estate developer" (which, again, functions not merely as a tool to disaffect Dem voters but as a backhanded tu quoque fallacy in aid of excusing Trump's history). But the part I loved most is in bold.
Quote:
This week, Iowa TV viewers will be treated to a two-minute ad titled “Pedigree,” in which the Club for Growth expresses its outrage over the deeply problematic notion that Beto O’Rourke is the new Barack Obama. Specifically, the anti-tax group paints O’Rourke as the poster child for white male entitlement. In the spot’s telling, O’Rourke has spent his whole life falling steadily upward, as his race and class privileges transformed his failures into learning experiences. Obama and O’Rourke both earned undergraduate degrees at Columbia University, the narrator allows, but “Obama went on to become the first African American editor of the Harvard Law Review, breaking barriers. Beto crashed into them; causing a collision while driving drunk, then fleeing the scene to avoid accountability. His charges were dropped as people of color languished behind bars for far less.”

Obama organized poor communities in Chicago, the conservative group notes (with affected admiration); O’Rourke let his wife’s “billionaire real-estate developer” dad buy him a city council seat — then, he voted to demolish a poor Hispanic community to make way for his father-in-law’s downtown development projects.
Chait NYMag

Right on. The Club for Growth, like the entire right wing universe, has a long history celebrating Obama's "community organizer" activities in Chicago.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 03:53 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
I want journalists independently investigating, researching, and writing stories of substance that are relevant to the lives of people locally, nationally, and globally—not fed to them by rich people for rich people about rich people.

So do most people. Puff pieces about rich people hardly represent the bulk of the reporting going on today. And just because we can find alternative analyses by unaffiliated bloggers and researchers doesn't mean that their stories are necessarily true. There was that big story in the Nation, for instance, which inferred that an insider had given DNC files to Wikileaks because it was technologically impossible for such a volume of material to be hacked. Trump supporters had a field day with that discovery and because it originated from a left-leaning source it was picked up by anti-DNC leftists as well. Trouble is, it was flat out untrue.

Quote:
It is ok with one type of person—and disgusting to people like me.

It's ok with more than one type of person and I'm sure it disgusts people who aren't like you. Everything isn't binary.



Well, everything is - if you happen to have a need to constantly set yourself up as being smarter, more savvy, or more in tune with reality than ‘others’.
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 04:07 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Quote:
Everything isn't binary.

Well, everything is - if you happen to have a need to constantly set yourself up as being smarter, more savvy, or more in tune with reality than ‘others’.
This is an interesting phenomenon. A long time ago, I bumped into this idea - "The primary barrier to learning is believing you already know it all"

Sarah Palin stands as an exemplar of this mindset. It is a mindset that contains a justification for not studying, for not reading, for uncareful analyses (if any at all), for slipshot argumentation, etc. And, of course, it functions as a psychological defense where one feels some species of intellectual inferiority which is somehow, and for some persons, too painful to admit. One aspect of this I continue to observe is the profligate use of cliches.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 04:36 pm
All The Best People - episode 609
Quote:
After Media Matters unearthed tapes of Fox News star Tucker Carlson defending statutory rape, Carlson responded by saying the “naughty” comments were “more than a decade” old. But less than a day later, The Daily Beast surfaced an interview in which Carlson made essentially the same argument — in early 2015.

“There are lots of things you have to play along with in life, and I understand society demands compromises,” Carlson told the future founder of the Proud Boys gang, Gavin McInnes, in an interview, adding: “But there is a limit beyond which I can’t pretend anymore. And calling — in this case, it was a 17-year-old kid — a ‘rape victim’ because a teacher, who wasn’t even that old, or married, was kind enough to initiate him into the ways of adulthood. I’m not just going to sit there.”...

TPM

Some years ago as an experiment, I posted at National Review Online for a month or so. In one exchange, I had a fellow insist that men are raped by women as commonly as the reverse. The chap was not available for reflection on this position.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:11 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
insults
deprecation
negative statements
public or private humiliation

Lot of people qualify for that condition, and you are one of them.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2019 05:38 pm
The Power of Petty Personal Rage

Straw police, hamburger paranoia and the state of the right.

Quote:
Today’s column is about plastic straws, hamburgers and dishwashing detergent. Also Captain Marvel.

No, I haven’t lost my mind, or at least I don’t think so. But quite a few other people have — and their rage-filled pettiness is a more important force in modern America than we like to think.

My starting point is a weekend tweet from Representative Devin Nunes of California, who headed the House Intelligence Committee until the House changed hands after the midterms. In that role, he basically acted as Donald Trump’s stonewaller in chief, doing everything he could to prevent any real investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Vladimir Putin.

But his tweet wasn’t about that. It was about a waitress who, citing the “straw police,” asked his dining party if they wanted straws. “Welcome to Socialism in California!” Nunes thundered.

If this seems like a weird aberration — he wasn’t even denied a straw, just asked if he wanted one — you need to realize that rage explosions over seemingly silly things are extremely common on the right. By all accounts, the biggest applause line at the Conservative Political Action Conference — eliciting chants of “U-S-A, U-S-A!” — was the claim that Democrats are coming for your hamburgers, just like Stalin. (They aren’t, and for the record, Stalin was a mass murderer, but objectively pro-burger.)

By the way, this isn’t a new phenomenon. I’m sure readers can come up with many examples, but I happen to remember a 2009 blog post by the right-wing activist Erick Erickson that was practically an incitement to violence: “At what point do the people tell the politicians to go to hell? At what point do they get off the couch, march down to their state legislator’s house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp?”

And what was the source of his rage? The observation that dishwasher detergent doesn’t work quite as well without the phosphates.

What do these things have in common? All of them involve cases where individual choices impose costs on other people. Plastic straws really are a source of ocean pollution. While nobody is planning to ban beef, flatulent cows really are an important source of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas. And phosphates contribute to toxic algae blooms.

But the rage seems to come from the suggestion that these costs imposed on others mean that white men — it does seem to always be white men — should consider changing their behavior, even a bit, in the public interest. Which brings me to Captain Marvel.

For those blissfully unaware of the issue, the latest superhero movie features a female protagonist, and the actress who plays her has expressed some mildly feminist views. So?

Well, for a significant number of men all of this is apparently extremely threatening. Mobs swamped internet sites like rottentomatoes.com with negative reviews before the movie opened, i.e., before they could even have seen it; YouTube filled up with attack videos and predictions that the film would be a disastrous failure.

Marvel rage recognizably drew on the same pathological pettiness as straw rage and hamburger rage. As it happens, the movie appears to be a big hit and is receiving favorable audience scores. This shows that the men afflicted with this syndrome are a fairly small minority.

But it’s not a minority without influence. Nunes was, for a time, among the most important politicians in Washington. CPAC sets the agenda for the party that controls the White House and the Senate. The recently revealed radio rants of Fox News’s Tucker Carlson could have come straight out of one of those bizarre anti-Brie Larson screeds.

The point is that demented anger is a significant factor in modern American political life — and overwhelmingly on one side. All that talk about liberal “snowflakes” is projection; if you really want to see people driven wild by tiny perceived slights and insults, you’ll generally find them on the right. Nor is it just about racism and misogyny. Although these are big components of the phenomenon, I don’t see the obvious connection to hamburger paranoia.

Just to be clear: To paraphrase John Stuart Mill, I’m not saying that most conservatives are filled with rage over petty things. What I’m saying instead is that most of those filled with such rage are conservatives, and they supply much of the movement’s energy. Not to put too fine a point on it, pathological pettiness almost surely put Donald Trump over the top in the 2016 election.

At this point you probably want to know what I think we should do about it. The truth is that I don’t know. I guess there’s some case for using taxes rather than regulations to control pollution, since you won’t be telling people directly what to do. But one suspects that the people I’m talking about will still find something to be hysterical about.

At the very least, however, we should realize what’s happening. It may be comforting to believe that politics is driven by more or less rational considerations of costs and benefits. But the reality is that a lot of it is driven by unreasoning rage.

krugman
 

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