blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 08:31 am
AIPAC is a fine organization just trying to help the US and Israel cooperate in mutually beneficial affairs. To criticize AIPAC is to be guilty of anti-Semitism.

But then there is this crowd
Quote:
Verified account
@ADL
🚨NEW REPORT🚨
White supremacist groups dramatically increased their propaganda efforts in 2018, targeting neighborhoods and college campuses through “flash mob” style events and literature distributions.
http://bit.ly/2tS0DkI
Godamn white-hating people with no foreskins.
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 08:47 am
Here's another thing that makes me seethe with anger.

A professor at Harvard is being target with protests and graffiti for defending Harvey Weinstein. Weinstein is, of course, a loathsome scummy piece of poop. But our western culture could surely not have achieved what it has in civic life without granting the right of everyone accused of a crime to a competent defense attorney.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 09:19 am
@Brand X,
Brand X wrote:
And no one has gone to jail yet.
Well, no one committed a crime.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 09:38 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
MY point, and tell me if you agree, is that it is quite possible for most of the country’s 15 million millionaires to have made their million dollars without having millionaire parents. Even teachers can do it (and I’ve seen a story that says 5% of them do).


I think in a nutshell you are saying that people if they make decent or above average salaries, if they are disciplined and fugal and stick to a budget with all their vacations and such like, they can be at least millionaires.

I wouldn't know, math along quite a few other subject are not my strong suit. But lets say you're right.

What others are saying is "life happens when your busy making other plans", to quote John Lennon. When you mix in all of life issues which can come up which end up taking a lot of money, say a special needs child, or a very sick child or someone in your family you are responsible and/or care for even yourself, expenses even unrelated to actual health care cost, add up quickly. Other emergencies happen to you or your loved ones.

If you inherited a sizable inheritance to fall back on, then the expensive things life throws will not break you savings so quickly if you are fugal.
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 09:41 am
A single-payer advocate answers the big question: How do we pay for it?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 09:56 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Here's another thing that makes me seethe with anger.

A professor at Harvard is being target with protests and graffiti for defending Harvey Weinstein. Weinstein is, of course, a loathsome scummy piece of poop. But our western culture could surely not have achieved what it has in civic life without granting the right of everyone accused of a crime to a competent defense attorney.


Do you feel the same way about the treatment of conservative speakers on a fairly large number of university campuses?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:06 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I think in a nutshell you are saying that people if they make decent or above average salaries, if they are disciplined and fugal and stick to a budget with all their vacations and such like, they can be at least millionaires.

This is way off topic, but if you start saving $270.51 per month at age 22, increase your savings by 2% annually applied monthly (as your salary rises through your career) and make 6% annually compounded monthly (very reasonable) you will have $1 million after 45 years at age 67.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:12 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
What others are saying is "life happens when your busy making other plans", to quote John Lennon. When you mix in all of life issues which can come up which end up taking a lot of money, say a special needs child, or a very sick child or someone in your family you are responsible and/or care for even yourself, expenses even unrelated to actual health care cost, add up quickly. Other emergencies happen to you or your loved ones.


ABSOLUTELY rev. Who can disagree with that? My very first post on this issue I mentioned that it probably wouldn't be possible with people who had to deal with medical issues or other such huge expenses. I mean it's still technically possible, but not easy for anyone.

I don't think most people have those expenses though, and if the person making $50,000/year can just pretend that they make $45,000/year then they can be millionaires. The person making $80,000/year if they could just live like they make $72,000 per year, they'd be millionaires faster. Hell, if they could live like they made $45,000/year then bonus.

There is always someone in life who manages to live their life making 90% of whatever you make, live like that person and eventually, with a bit of luck healthwise, you'll be a millionaire.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:16 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

This is way off topic, but if you start saving $270.51 per month at age 22, increase your savings by 2% annually applied monthly (as your salary rises through your career) and make 6% annually compounded monthly (very reasonable) you will have $1 million after 45 years at age 67.


This is someone making $32,500/year saving 10% of their salary. It's possible for a lot of people.

Not easy, just possible.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:20 am
@engineer,
We didn't always have 270.50 left at the end of the paycheck every month when my husband was still working. He is now 53. Luckily he worked side jobs as well, but even that disappeared sometimes. But then again, we liked to indulge our kids, and grandkids beyond just basic food and shelter. School alone is expensive if you consider how costly school programs such as band, basketball... and then there is birthday parties of friends... not to mention keeping up with decent clothes for kids all through out the year. Just everyday living is expensive when you have kids and grandkids. At least in my household it is.

However, I got to admit, I have always spoiled my kids and grandkids and tried my best to get the things they wanted as well as what they needed. So, we're not millionaires.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:22 am
@maporsche,
They took away a substantial chunk.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:23 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

401Ks are not as good as pensions used to be. A pension is guaranteed. If the market crashes, 401Ks start dwindling fast.


I agree that the dollar value of the employer match in most companies doesn't meet the real cost of defined benefit pension plans. However, it is important to note that many, nearly all government, pension plans, which are exempt from the government imposed financial disclosure and funding requirements, are very seriously underfunded, and likely to collapse within a few years. Prime examples involve the States of Illinois and (to a lesser degree) California. Sturgis, a couple of pages back, described the risks and uncertainties associated with defined benefit pension plans very accurately.

401Ks do have the advantage of encouraging the employee thrift that maporsche was addressing, and of generally providing a greater return on the savings and employer matches that are invested. Moreover the employee gets to manage the investment of his own funds.

maporsche was entirely correct about the potential accumulation of wealth through such a plan, and even the hypothetical teacher living on a typical teachers salary (which is greater than the $50K/year he assumed) can in most cases easily accumulate a (say) $600K stake which, with Social Security, will enable a retirement income equal to or greater than their employment income.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 10:58 am
Quote:
Amid strikes in multiple states, students take a stand in support of their teachers

Across the country, students have been showing up at picket lines, walking out, and speaking up.


https://thinkprogress.org/school-students-fight-teachers-strikes-kentucky-oklahoma-la-42522c7bf002/


0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 11:54 am
cabral 🌹
@axcomrade
·
21h
When Geraldo Rivera has a more nuanced perspective on Israel than most establishment democrats, we have a serious problem
Quote Tweet
Geraldo Rivera
@GeraldoRivera
I’m a proud Jewish Zionist who is critical of Israel’s occupation of Palestine. Isn’t there space for secular criticism & why is this Rep. getting so much grief? And #AIPAC is not a lobby? Give me a break. (link: https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1102311258282319872) twitter.com/benshapiro/sta…
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 11:58 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
When Geraldo Rivera has a more nuanced perspective on Israel than most establishment democrats, we have a serious problem

What is that problem? Israel surviving as a sovereign nation? That should not be a problem, it should be a priority.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:01 pm
@revelette1,
Matt Bruenig wrote:
The first thing you want to do obviously is take the money flows we already have and divert them into the Medicare system. That is easier said than done.

I’ve been trying to think about how to do it in a way that’s also not regressive, by imposing substantially more cost on low-earners who currently receive Medicaid. Because that’s a criticism people will make. Any tax you use is going to make low earners pay more than they currently pay because they don’t pay anything.

My idea is to completely overhaul the whole payroll tax system in the US. The United States has three payroll taxes. Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment benefits. The way they work is unemployment insurance applies to people to the first $7,000 of earnings. Social Security applies to the first $125,000. Then Medicare applies to all earnings, plus you have the additional Medicare tax that pops in above $200,000.

It is a regressive structure. The first dollar of earnings is hit with the full unemployment tax, the full Social Security tax, the full Medicare tax. Then those taxes fall off until you’re left with the 2 percent Medicare tax at the high earnings.

So let’s squeeze all of those into flat taxes. Instead of charging, like we do with unemployment benefits, 6 percent on the first $7,000 of earnings, you can knock that down to less than 1 percent on all earnings. You can do that with Social Security as well. Knock that down and apply it to all earnings. Medicare would be unchanged.

That then opens up a lot of space in the low to mid-earners to apply a higher Medicare tax without there being a net tax increase. Because their unemployment tax has gone down substantially. Their Social Security tax has gone down substantially. Then you can do a flat Medicare tax and the net effect is it’s all falling on people making more than $100,000 a year.


Figuring out a technical way to pay for "Medicare for All" is complex, but not impossible. But accomplishing this politically will require more than putting it in a party platform and managing to win one election. Does anyone really believe that people will elect single-payer supporters in large enough numbers to break filibusters and prevail over the conservative judiciary?
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:06 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Here's a pretty classic example showing why we need to monitor our information sources.

Also a good example of confirmation bias. If Kim.com says it and I want to believe it, Fox is a perfectly fine source.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Do you feel the same way about the treatment of conservative speakers on a fairly large number of university campuses?
Let's set aside the difference between these two issues. They are very similar in that both are key rights issues and both (by the stipulation of your question) occurred in a university setting (perhaps not your favorite human institution which may be why you've framed your question as you have).

We've established the "right to a lawyer" as a fundamental civil/human right, likewise the "right to free speech". Both, we could note, are intended to address social inequalities in power/wealth to arrive at more consistent and fair judicial procedures. And like all "rights", they are the product of a social contract. A "right" becomes so when enough of us agree it is so.

Now, after two paragraphs of introductory fun, let's get to your query. The answer is... sometimes.

First, I think there is no case where a right to a lawyer can justifiably be negated. And I think anyone behaving so as to weaken this right is a ******* idiot too dull to appreciate a right that applies to them and which is vitally important as a key right.

Second, I think there are cases where speech acts are justifiably restricted. For example, a truck moving slowly down a city street with one of those huge Hollywood/Nazi style loudspeakers blaring out the voice of Ann Coulter urging citizens to round up and murder all the Jews. Or Ann Coulter speaking from a stage (anywhere) promoting the same thing. On the other hand, however, there are very, very few such egregious cases that I have ever encountered. But there are some that happen now and again which head too closely to speech meant to foment hatreds of persons or groups. If I was in charge of such a venue (at university particularly) I would want speech liberty to be given maximal latitude. You know, the way it is at Falwell's university. So I wouldn't permit a speaker to be blocked by those who disagree with content almost always. And my opinion of those who attempt such blockades is not high because, again, they are working against themselves by diminishing a key civil/human right. (Protests are, of course, fine being instances of speech liberty as well)

And later today, I'm going to fill you all in on my theory that God is left-handed and how this explains a lot. Stay tuned.

blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
Good for him. Such a weird guy, that one.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 5 Mar, 2019 12:54 pm
@blatham,
Your rather tortured explanation reveals the truth of your profound hypocrisy.
 

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