georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2019 05:07 pm
@Lash,
Well the most Socialist country in the hemisphere - one in which the government does indeed control the remaining means of production, is Venezuela, with an avowedly Socialist government that does indeed control the means of both production and consumption of the few remaining goods . There the government directly controls the distribution of food and medicines and visibly does so based on the government's perception of the loyalty of those involved. Political opposition has been crushed by an increasingly autocratic government; the nation's elected legislature isolated; and its courts packed with loyalist judges. Now hospitals are empty of medicines and food is in generally short supply. Is this a useful model for the new Socialist wing of the Democrat Party. I think not.

It is instructive to trace the decline of economic activity and the freedom of the Venezuelan people through the 10+ year history of the "Bolivarian Revolution" which, with remarkable speed, destroyed the economy of what was once one of the richest nations in the hemisphere, indeed the world. Moreover Venezuela was richly endowed with forests, water, farmland, minerals and the world's largest reserves of petroleum. That such a prosperous and richly endowed nation could be reduced to chaos and poverty in just a decade, is no small achievement. How did they achieve it?

They initially started using the rich tax proceeds from oil exports to build highly touted housing estates, hospitals and amenities for the poor and their political supporters. Then, exploiting their newfound loyal followers, using the rhetoric and bullying techniques of class warfare, and outright seizures and arrests, they chased out most of the entrepreneurs who operated most of Venezuela's private economy - millions fled to Spain, Mexico and the United States. A similar process followed with the Petroleum industry which was taken over by the government and staffed with more party loyalists. What were the results?
=> The private sector economy went into free fall; domestic production of goods and services ceased. Shortages led to government managed imports; an accelerated drain on cash reserves; government imposed price controls; shortages and accelerating inflation.
=> Under its new, incompetent management, PDVSTA stopped maintaining the physical infrastructure that sustained its oil production, and, starting five years later, oil production started a disastrous decline to about 15% of its pre 2015 levels ... and still continuing.
=> Corruption spread throughout the economy, government and military as the political leadership increasingly bought the loyalty of critical power centers.

Now the country is suffering through economic chaos and collapse; an increasingly tyrannical and autocratic government; and revolution or civil war may be in the offing.

The promises Hugo Chavez made to the Venezuelan people bore an uncanny resemblance to those of Bernie Sanders and recently of the "Green New Deal" of the hapless AOC .

It has all happened before. In Russia and the unfortunate nations of Eastern Europe which had their brand of socialism forced on them by their Soviet occupiers. The first Generation of post colonial governments in Africa largely embraced authoritarian socialism as a means of nation-building: they lapsed into authoritarian corruption and stagnation, wasting a generation of potential progress, from which they are at last emerging.


There's nothing new under the sun.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2019 05:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
No problem posting Perry's stuff. Just thought I'd point out how I think he has it wrong.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2019 06:11 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

You guys make opposite sides of the same coin. Both views have points of validity.

I have been working to physical exhaustion this week. I should not even be posting today. See y'all another day.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Fri 22 Feb, 2019 11:41 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:





It has all happened before. In Russia and the unfortunate nations of Eastern Europe which had their brand of socialism forced on them by their Soviet occupiers. The first Generation of post colonial governments in Africa largely embraced authoritarian socialism as a means of nation-building: they lapsed into authoritarian corruption and stagnation, wasting a generation of potential progress, from which they are at last emerging.


There's nothing new under the sun.




Really George? I may not be a Bernie supporter, but you think Bernie is an authoritarian and yet claim you are a Trump supporter? Such hubris.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 07:52 am
Quote:
President Donald Trump told reporters on Friday that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show “no collusion” if it’s “honest.”

“It’s one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on this country,” he said of the Mueller investigation. “So I look forward to seeing the report. If it’s an honest report, it will say that. If it’s not an honest report it won’t.”
TPM
Not too difficult to see what's wrong here. The final legitimate arbiter of whether Trump (or those close to him) has committed crimes or impeachable offences is...Trump. This is standard justice procedure. After any investigation of rape, theft, fraud, assault, corruption, false testimony, etc, the investigators will ask the person investigated whether they got it right. If the investigated person says "no, I'm innocent of everything" then the investigation's findings are deemed false. That's the way it works.

Of course Trump knows that is not how it works. What's interesting is why he would say something so patently ridiculous.

1) This is just a continuation of what is almost certainly the big lie, repeated thousands of times by himself and those covering for him including damn near all right wing media voices - "there was no collusion" or "no evidence of collusion has been found". It's not clear how, say, Hannity or Limbaugh etc are privy to the data and testimony gathered up by the Mueller team but they'll repeat this deception multiple times each day and have been doing so for 2 years.
Quote:
A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
Let's note here too that this propaganda technique is most effective when the lie is repeated by multiple sources (credibility of the lie appears enhanced).

2) He saying this because it is the predictable end-point of the propaganda campaign he and his allies have been employing... "Trump is the victim of a Deep State plan to remove him unjustly from office". In this framing, the right wing audience will be encouraged to see any finding of guilt as not merely unjust but clear evidence he's being rail-roaded. Of course, our experience here demonstrates that his audience will be happy to go along with the lies and irrationalities (for example, how could it be even remotely possible that this "deep state" would be populated by Democrats given that the GOP has held the WH (thus making appointments) for 20 years since Reagan whereas the Dems have held it for only 16 years).

3) All of this would be academic if it weren't the case that voices on Fox like DiGenova are telling it's audience that it is in the midst of a civil war and that the audience should (a) vote and (b) buy and gather up weapons.

Let's be clear about that last one. The message is that if the special council arrives at conclusions deeply damaging to Trump or those close to him, then the use of weapons against "the other side in this civil war" is justified.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 07:56 am
@blatham,
You witch hunters don't like it when your victims protest their innocence.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:05 am
https://youtu.be/LcjTfGovDSI

Two white guys, obviously pretending to be black because all #berniebros are white, right?

The true demographic power behind Bernie’s policies are going to gobsmack the American establishment.

❤️🌷

Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:09 am
https://imgur.com/Fmbjgfk.jpg
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:13 am
https://fair.org/home/venezuela-coverage-takes-us-back-to-golden-age-of-lying-about-latin-america/?fbclid=IwAR2KPV5d5iHlin3HZv92e29cMTLuhSIVNUfZJmzOlmak9YLmpwbjzw4zL18
I was sitting in my apartment in Caracas, Venezuela, reading the online edition of Time magazine (5/19/16), which carried a report that there was not even something as basic as aspirin to be found anywhere in Venezuela: “Basic medicines like aspirin are nowhere to be found.”

I walked out of the apartment to the nearest pharmacy, four blocks away, where I found plenty of aspirin, as well as acetaminophen (generic Tylenol) and ibuprofen (generic Advil), in a well-stocked pharmacy with a knowledgeable professional staff that would be the envy of any US drugstore.

A few days after the Time story, CNBC (6/22/16) carried a claim that there was no acetaminophen to be found anywhere, either: “Basic things like Tylenol aren’t even available.” That must have taken the Pfizer Corporation by surprise, since it was their Venezuelan subsidiary, Pfizer Venezuela SA, which produced the acetaminophen I purchased. (Neither Time writer Ian Bremer nor CNBC commentator Richard Washington was in Venezuela, and there was no evidence offered that either of them had ever been there.)

I purchased all three products, plus cough syrup and other over-the-counter medications, because I doubted that anyone in the United States would believe me if I couldn’t produce the medications in their packages.

Unrelenting drumbeat of lies
Venezuelan Youth Orchestra in New York City, 2016
Venezuelan Youth Orchestra in New York City, 2016

In fact, I myself wouldn’t have believed anyone who made such claims without being able to produce the proof, so intense and unrelenting has been the drumbeat of lies. When the Youth Orchestra of Venezuela gave a concert in New York in early 2016, before I moved to Caracas, I went there thinking, “Gee, I hope that the members of the orchestra are all well-dressed and well-fed.” Yes, of course they were all well-dressed and well-fed!

When I mentioned this in a talk at the University of Vermont, a student told me that he’d had the same feeling when he was following the Pan American soccer championship. He wondered if the Venezuelan players would be able to play, because they’d be so weakened from lack of food. In fact, he said, the Venezuelan team played superbly, and went much further in the competition than expected, since Venezuela has historically been a baseball country, unlike its soccer-obsessed neighbors Brazil and Colombia.

Hard as it may be for followers of the US media to believe, Venezuela is a country where people play sports, go to work, go to classes, go to the beach, go to restaurants and attend concerts. They publish and read newspapers of all political stripes, from right to center-right, to center, to center-left, to left. They produce and watch programs on television, on TV channels that are also of all political stripes.

Chavismo supporters
Supporters of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro (photo: TeleSur)

CNN was ridiculed recently (Redacted Tonight, 2/1/19) when it carried a report on Venezuela, “in the socialist utopia that now leaves virtually every stomach empty,” followed immediately with a cut to a demonstration by the right-wing opposition, where everybody appeared to be quite well-fed.

But surely that’s because most of the anti-government demonstrators were upper-middle class, a viewer might think. The proletarians at pro-government demonstrations must be suffering severe hunger.

Not if one consults photos of the massive pro-government demonstration on February 2, where people seemed to be doing pretty well. This is in spite of the Trump administration’s extreme economic squeeze on the country, reminiscent of the “make the economy scream” strategy used by the Nixon administration and the CIA against the democratic government of President Salvador Allende in Chile, as well as many other democratically elected governments.

Rival demonstrations
Ultimas Noticias: Capriles: Partidos no apoyaban autojuramentación de Guaidó
Últimas Noticias on Twitter (2/1/19): “Capriles: The Parties Weren’t Supporting the Auto-Inauguration of Guaidó”

That demonstration showed considerable support for the government of President Nicolás Maduro and widespread rejection of Donald Trump’s choice for president of Venezuela, Juan Guaidó. Guaidó, who proclaimed himself to be president of the country and was recognized minutes later by Trump, even though a public opinion poll showed that 81 percent of Venezuelans had never heard of him, comes from the ultra-right faction in Venezuelan politics.

The pro-Maduro demonstration suggested, not surprisingly, that Guaidó had failed to win much popular support outside the wealthy and upper-middle class. But Guaidó couldn’t even win support from many of them. The day before rival rallies February 2, Henrique Capriles, the leader of a less extreme right-wing faction, gave an interview to the AFP that appeared in Últimas Noticias (2/1/19), the most widely read newspaper in Venezuela. In it, Capriles said that most of the opposition had not supported Guaidó’s self-proclamation as president. That may explain the surprisingly weak turnout at Guaidó’s demonstration, held in the wealthiest district of Caracas, and obviously outshone by the pro-government demonstration on the city’s main boulevard.

The New York Times did not show pictures of that pro-government demonstration, limiting itself to a claim by unnamed “experts” (2/2/19) that the pro-government demonstration was smaller than the anti-government one.

Readers can look at the photos of the rival demonstrations and judge for themselves. Both groups did their best to pull out their faithful, knowing how much is riding on a show of popular support. The stridently right-wing opposition paper El Nacional (2/3/19) carried a photo of the right-wing opposition demonstration:

El Nacional Front Page
If that was the best photo it could find, it was remarkably unimpressive compared to the photos in the left-wing papers CCS (2/2/19)….

CCS Article on Maduro speaking to crowd

…and Correo del Orinoco (2/3/19), which were only too happy to publish pictures of the pro-government event:

Correo del Orinoco front page

Unlikely humanitarian
A huge anti-government demonstration was supposed to make possible a coup d’état, a maneuver the CIA has used repeatedly—in Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Brazil in 1964 and many more, straight through to Honduras in 2009 and Ukraine in 2015. The turnout at the Trump administration’s demonstration was disappointing, and the coup d’état never occurred. The result is that Trump has expressed a sudden interest in getting food and medicine to Venezuelans (FAIR.org, 2/9/19).

Trump, who let thousands die in Puerto Rico and put small children in cages on the Mexican border, seems to be an unlikely champion of humanitarian aid to Latin Americans, but the corporate media have straight-facedly pretended to believe it.

CBC: How a bridge between Colombia and Venezuela became part of a propaganda fight
The CBC (2/15/19) acknowledged that the bridge depicted as being blocked to humanitarian aid has in fact never been opened.

Most have suppressed reports that the Red Cross and the UN are providing aid to Venezuela in cooperation with the Venezuelan government, and have protested against US “aid” that is obviously a political and military ploy.

The corporate media have continued to peddle the Trump-as-humanitarian-champion line, even after it was revealed that a US plane was caught smuggling weapons into Venezuela, and even after Trump named Iran/Contra criminal Elliott Abrams to head up Venezuelan operations. Abrams was in charge of the State Department Human Rights Office during the 1980s, when weapons to US-backed terrorists in Nicaragua were shipped in US planes disguised as “humanitarian” relief.

Canada’s CBC (2/15/19) at least had the honesty to acknowledge that it had been had in swallowing a lie from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that the Venezuelan government had blockaded a bridge between Colombia and Venezuela to prevent aid shipments. The newly built bridge has not yet been opened: it has never been open, apparently because of hostile relations between the two countries, but the non-opening long predates the US government’s alleged food and medicine shipments.

The absurdity of $20 million of US food and medicine aid to a country of 30 million, when US authorities have stolen $30 billion from Venezuela in oil revenue, and take $30 million every day, needs no comment.

‘Failed state’
Financial Times: Venezuela Risks a Descent Into Chaos
The Financial Times (4/11/16) reported in 2016 that Venezuela was a “failed state,” “pure chaos” with “something akin to a civil war going on.”

The campaign of disinformation and outright lies about Venezuela was kicked off in 2016 by the Financial Times. Ironically, it chose the 14th anniversary of the 2002 failed coup d’etat against President Hugo Chávez—April 11, 2016—to claim that Venezuela was in “chaos” and “civil war,” and that Venezuela was a “failed state.” As with the Time and CNBC reports, the Financial Times reporter was not in Venezuela, and there was no evidence in the report that he had ever been there.

I asked right-wing friends in Venezuela whether they agreed with the Financial Times claims. “Well, no, of course not,” said one, stating the obvious, “there is no chaos and no civil war. But Venezuela is a failed state, since it has not been able to provide for all the medical needs of the population.” By that standard, every country in Latin America is a failed state, and obviously the United States too.

The New York Times has run stories (5/15/16, 10/1/16) claiming that conditions in Venezuelan hospitals are horrendous. The reports enraged Colombians in New York, who have noted that a patient can die on the doorstep of a Colombian public hospital if the patient has no insurance. In Venezuela, in contrast, patients are treated for free.

One Colombian resident in New York said that his mother had recently returned to Bogotá after several years in the United States, and had not had time to obtain medical insurance. She fell ill, and went to a public hospital. The hospital left her in the waiting room for four hours, then sent her to a second hospital. The second hospital did the same, leaving her for four hours and then sending her to a third hospital. The third hospital was preparing to send her to a fourth when she protested that she was bleeding internally and was feeling weak.

“I’m sorry, Señora, if you don’t have medical insurance, no public hospital in this country will look at you,” said the woman at the desk. “Your only hope is to go to a private hospital, but be prepared to pay a great deal of money up front.” Luckily, she had a wealthy friend, who took her to a private hospital, and paid a great deal of money up front.

Such conditions in Colombia and other neoliberal states go unmentioned in the US corporate media, which have treated the Colombian government, long a right-wing murder-squad regime, as a US ally (Extra!, 2/09).

You Tube: Por Culpa de Chavez
“Latin American Juvenile Cardiac Hospital, Caracas: It’s Chávez’s Fault!” (YouTube, 3/31/11)

Well, OK, but are the reports of conditions in Venezuelan hospitals true or grossly exaggerated? “They are much better than they were ten years ago,” said a friend who works in a Caracas hospital. In fact, he said, ten years before, the hospital where he worked did not exist, and new hospitals are now being opened. One was dedicated recently in the town of El Furrial, and another was opened in El Vigia, as reported by the centrist newspaper Últimas Noticias (3/3/17, 4/27/18). The government has also greatly expanded others, like a burn center in Caracas and three new operating rooms at the hospital in Villa Cura.

Meanwhile, the government is inaugurating a new high-speed train line, The Dream of Hugo Chávez, in March (Correo del Orinoco, 2/6/19). Since the US media have never allowed reporting on any accomplishments in the years since Chávez took office in 1999, but only any alleged, exaggerated or, as noted, completely invented shortcomings, readers have to consult an alternative history. Here is one offered by a Venezuelan on YouTube (3/31/11): “Por Culpa de Chávez” (“It’s Chávez’s Fault”). Depicting new hospitals, transit lines, housing, factories and so on built under Chavismo, it might help many understand why the Maduro government continues to enjoy such strong backing from so many people.

Economic warfare
This is not to minimize Venezuela’s problems. The country was hit, like other oil-producing countries, and as it was in the 1980s and ’90s, by the collapse of oil prices. That failed to bring down the government, so now the Trump administration has created an artificial crisis by using extreme economic warfare to deprive the country of foreign exchange needed to import basic necessities. The Trump measures seem designed to prevent any economic recovery.

Like any country at war (and the Trump administration has placed Venezuela under wartime conditions, and is threatening immediate invasion), there have been shortages, and products that can mostly be found on the black market. This should surprise no one: During World War II in the US, a cornucopia of a country not seriously threatened with invasion, there was strict rationing of products like sugar, coffee and rubber.

The Venezuelan government has made food, medicine and pharmaceuticals available at extremely low prices, but much of the merchandise has made its way to the black market, or over the border to Colombia, depriving Venezuelans of supplies and ruining Colombian producers. The government recently abandoned some of the heavy price subsidies, which resulted initially in higher prices. Over the past few weeks, prices have been coming down as supplies stayed in Venezuela, especially as the government gained greater control over the Colombian border to prevent smuggling.

There has never been a serious discussion of any of this in the US corporate media, much less any discussion of the campaign of lies or the Trump administration warfare. There has been no comparison with conditions in the 1980s and ’90s, when Venezuela’s neoliberal government imposed IMF economic recipes, resulting in a popular rebellion, the bloody 1989 Caracazo, when wholesale government repression took the lives of hundreds (according to the government at the time) or thousands (according to government critics), and martial law took the lives of many more.

Efforts by the right-wing opposition to provoke a similar uprising, and another Caracazo that could justify a foreign “humanitarian intervention,” have failed repeatedly. So the US administration and corporate media simply resort to the most extreme lying about Latin America that has been seen since the Reagan administration wars of the 1980s.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:16 am
@Lash,
It's a nice dream, Lash, and maybe it will turn out that way but I'm not sure why you'd think so.
Quote:
All of those issues are of interest to voters of color, but Sanders struggled to convince the majority of them in 2016 that he had better policy solutions to these concerns than did Democratic rival Hillary Clinton. In the South Carolina primary, Sanders won 14 percent of the African American vote, according to exit polls. Clinton, the eventual Democratic nominee, took 86 percent of the vote.

Winning the majority vote of African Americans — and Latinos, Asian Americans and other voters of color — could be even more challenging as more voters seem excited to get behind candidates they feel better represent them in terms of race, gender and sexual orientation. Sanders appears to be calling on Americans to look beyond identity in determining their choice for the next president.
WP

blatham
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:20 am
@Region Philbis,
Yeah. Almost funny, isn't it.
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:22 am
@blatham,

mostly just sad.

thankfully, it'll all be over soon...
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:27 am
Referring back to DiGenova's statement on Fox about civil war and "go buy guns"...
Quote:
Killings committed by individuals and groups associated with far-right extremist groups have risen significantly. Seventy-one percent of the 387 “extremist related fatalities in the United States” from 2008 to 2017 were committed by members of far-right and white-supremacist groups, according the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism. Islamic extremists were responsible for 26 percent.
NYT
And there's the Coast Guard maniac out to murder Dems and MSNBC media figures (an incident Trump have still not addressed in any specifics at all).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:29 am
@Region Philbis,
I know. I'm actually rather terrified.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:37 am
Karma news from all over
Quote:
Justice Department, Democrats brace for fight over access to Mueller report
Justice Department officials have worried that they will have a weak argument for withholding materials, given how much information was turned over to Congress after the FBI’s investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.
WP
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:52 am
Quote:
The Trump administration is finalizing plans to strip funding from Planned Parenthood
A rule released Friday will make it harder for abortion providers to offer birth control.
Vox

If the Dem candidates are smart, this increasing threat to American women's rights and liberty coming from the religious right nutcases will be pushed front and center.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 08:56 am
@blatham,
The Clinton machine has an entrenched web of sycophants and cronies throughout black churches that press Clinton propaganda to church members. I actually saw a brochure distributed in a predominantly black church with pro-Clinton propaganda, sowing fear in the community. I wish to hell I’d kept it.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to state that a strong segment of the black southern population believes what they hear from the pulpit is the gospel, and the fact that millennial aged blacks are more for Bernie informs on this Clinton/DNC ploy to own Southern blacks.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 09:08 am
@Lash,
Clinton has been gone for two years. Even if there was a relationship such as you posit, it is now completely irrelevant. Bernie is now up against a very different slate of individuals.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 09:14 am
Must Watch
Chris Hayes had an episode last night on the DiGenova item I've been writing about. This "civil war" notion is more common in right wing media than I had known.
Quote:
MSNBC's Chris Hayes documents conservative media’s unhinged fantasy of a modern day civil war
Hayes: A modern day civil war is “bandied about on TV and radio by right-wing personalities who make their money selling paranoia”
MM Hayes was, of course, one of the media figures that the coast guard psychopath had on his hit list.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2019 09:15 am
@blatham,
Hello?? When you post how Clinton beat Bernie with blacks in South Carolina—it is completely relevant to respond about the reason the Clintons performed as they did.

Sheesh. Have more coffee.

I do expect Bernie to do much better this go round.

0 Replies
 
 

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