Progressives (Liberals)

Mr. Netanyahu is not in any way responsible for the Palestinians' choice to never agree to peace.

Our democracy is not (yet?) rotten by outside influences. Russia tried to promote Le Pen and failed. They succeeded in your country...

I believe the movement created by Marie Le Pen's father was very largely a natural product of French politics. Russia may well have tried to help her in the last election, but I at least am unaware of any such assistance.

Similarly Trump is a natural product of the American political milieu, and he has successfully addressed a number of long ignored issues in great need of it. I'm not aware of any proof of material support for his campaign provided either directly or indirectly by Russia. Some may be found by very energetic politically motivated opponents, but after over 20 months of investigations they haven't found or acted on any yet. Throughout this period, however, we have seen ample of Russian payoffs to the Clintons and their foundation for Hillary's very strange actions as Secretary of State to approve and even expedite the takeover of the largest North American uranium mining operation by Russian Oligarchs.

I suspect Le Pen's Nationalist movement was deeply offensive and threatening to French political elites, just as has been Trump's here. In both cases the respective political elites have reacted with exaggerated outrage.

However Trump retains the support ( currently) of a majority of polled voters, and our economy is booming in a way we haven't seen in decades. I also suspect (but don't really know) the ongoing yellow shirt protests in France are coming, in large part, from former Le Pen supporters, indicating the domestic character of the political issues involved.

The history of Soviet/Russian intervention in the politics of western nations has usually been one involving actions to excite internal conflicts and disrupt internal confidence in their systems and governance. It is interesting to note that the Clinton campaign bought, through a party law firm and a third party Agent, a phony dossier on Trump likely prepared by Russian Intelligence agencies, and subseq1uently used as the justification for the ongoing investigation in deceptive applications to the special courts involved. Just who was "colluding" with the Russians?

Because you have people on the inside doing a great job of limiting your rights and choices. Macron is a puppet for the EU.

Are you comparing Le Pen's Front national with "Trump's movement"?

The FN wasn't a "nationalist movement" but an extreme right-wing and nationalist political party.
And that's still today - changing the name to Rassemblement national is just cosmetic.

Jean-Marie Le Pen has been known for his pun Durafour-crématoire (four crématoire meaning "crematory oven") when talking about then-minister Michel Durafour. [I think, the one or other or the two here ould make that pun as well.]


Russia and Marine Le Pen: A Russian bank gave Marine Le Pen’s party a loan. Then weird things began happening.

Holy poop. My source for that claim was Anthony Sampson's The Arms Bazaar. But it was many decades ago when I read it so I probably ought not to blame that author. Sorry. Did not realize I had that wrong.

The Trump dossier is a serious piece of intell, and it was at first commissioned by Republicans during the primary. You can burry your head in the sand as long as you want. I'd rather face the facts.

Nonsense.

. I'm not quite sure what "equal" would mean or look like here. For one thing, we can't just divide the representatives into two distinct groups of equal size and allocate duties and power from that. The way to proceed, I think, is to place some faith in those individuals (like AOC) to go forward with integrity and to keep the progressive community appraised of any real oppression or disregard.

We ought NOT to trust anonymous posters on social media to provide more truthful/accurate information than her and others you identify as principled.

(You may notice a theme running through our conversations).

Wall St. Thinks Elizabeth Warren Is Darth Vader

Think let a ship float. Don't try to sink it.

Yes, based on the obvious facts that both arose from the ongoing political struggles within the respective countries.

I truly don't understand the distinction you appear to be making here or how it relates to what I believe is your proposition.

All political parties, over a twenty year time span, make significant changes to their focus and goals. That doesn't make then less authentic as expressions of the political aspirations of their national members and voters.

If I get your metaphor properly, yes. But the question is how best to determine which of the two is going on. If AOC, for example, says that the party leaders are listening and sharing power but some anonymous shitbird on Facebook with an IP in Lithuania or in Mitch McConnell's office says they really aren't and then claims that AOC has been co-opted by the oligarchs running the DNC...

When Le Pen was in his early 30's (in 1951 or 1952), he became a member of of the Action française - especial animus against the Jews, Huguenots, Freemasons, unspecific foreigners ...
I think, you can call him (he was a member of several other right-wing parties and associations before he founded the FN) a poujadisme politician. But even Poujarde expressly distanced himself from him.

problems problems
AOC and her sisters are holding their own.

Well until the late 1960s the Democrat party in "the Solid South" was the principal guarantor of the continuation of racial segregation and Jim Crow Tactics throughout the South. So what?

Hightor has never read Deleuze, which is why Hightor is information compromised. Deleuze: "One has to be more cnetrist than centrist." Hightor is also information compromised when not knowing the important difference between atheism and radical atheism.

Yeah. Stop being so damned information compromised, hightor.

I didn't know that Trump was a member of the Democrat party in "the Solid South". My bad.

You're being silly and petty, Walter -unlike you. My point was that over a several decade period, political parties of all kinds do change and adapt. Do you deny that?