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Black Women Send Letter to Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi in Support of Maxine Waters

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 04:39 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
So you think the Founding Fathers didn't know how to write a Constitution? How have we ever survived since 1781?
I think they did a good job at creating the Constitution.

I don't think they included any provisions in the Constitution that prevented the Republicans from refusing to consider Obama's Supreme Court nominee.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:21 pm
@oralloy,
Article II,Section II, Sentence 2:
Quote:
he [the president] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law:

The Senate refused to advise or vote for a consent. Instead they did nothing. UnConstitutional.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:25 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Blocking Republican nominees for no reason is picking a fight.
How do you know they had no reasons? No offense, but the only "block" that you specifically mentioned turned out be confirmed in short order. Fact is, judges and appointees sometime get passed and sometimes not-that's why the Constitution requires them to "advise". When you are not even discussing a nominee in committee, let alone the floor of the House, you are refusing to "advise" on a nominee, which the Constitution requires you to do.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:26 pm
@Blickers,
Refusing to consider is just a way of not consenting.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:31 pm
@oralloy,
Refusal to consider is not "advising". Which the Constitution says you must do, and they didn't. The first Congress in American history.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:31 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
How do you know they had no reasons?
No one has ever provided any reasons for the huge number of blocks.

At the time, the Democrats were pretty clear that they were blocking the nominations just because they didn't like Bush. I had futile discussions with them warning them that the Republicans would respond in kind, but no one listened to my warnings.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:34 pm
@oralloy,
Clinton didn't get all his picks through either. There were not a huge number of blocks. Fact is, the "huge number of blocks" lie was just a falsehood put out by the GOP because the knew they were going to go against the Constitution for the first time and they wanted to pretend it was just normal business, which is was not.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2018 11:59 pm
@Blickers,
It was not a lie. The Democrats blocked a massive amounts of Bush's nominees for no reason other than spitefulness.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 12:19 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Refusal to consider is not "advising". Which the Constitution says you must do, and they didn't. The first Congress in American history.


You keep trying to make a distinction without a difference. Their "advice" was that they didn't consent. They are NOT required to consent. Got it?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 12:22 am
@Blickers,
Politico, February 2008 wrote:
Since Democrats took control of Congress a year ago, the battle of wills over nominations has left many high-level vacancies unfilled throughout the federal government. For example, the Federal Election Commission is unable to act officially because it does not have the required quorum.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-now/2008/02/bush-ups-the-ante-in-nomination-fight-005990
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 09:37 am
@oralloy,
How much longer are you going to pretend you don't understand? All of Bush's appointments were discussed in the appropriate Senate committee, many of them passing. Some of them didn't pass. This is normal for both parties.

As usual, the Republicans counted on the ignorance of their followers about governmental workings, and tried to make a scandal out of the fact that many of Bush's appointments didn't make it through committee, just as many of Clinton's appointments didn't make it through.

Quote:
During his presidency, Clinton nominated 45 people for 42 different federal district judgeships to federal district courts who were never confirmed by the U.S. Senate. Like the appellate court nominations mentioned above, many of these nominees were blocked by Republicans either in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was controlled by Republicans for six of the eight years of Clinton’s presidency, or on the Senate floor, where one nominee, Ronnie L. White, was defeated by senators.

Of the 42 federal district judgeship vacancies in question, 17 eventually were filled with different Clinton nominees, 24 were filled by nominees of President George W. Bush and one never ended up becoming vacant because the district judge holding it never received confirmation to be elevated to an appellate court.
Source
So typical of the Right to convince their unknowing followers of a scandal that doesn't exist, so that the Republicans can do something awful in "retaliation".
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 01:03 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
All of Bush's appointments were discussed in the appropriate Senate committee,
I am not convinced that it is true that they were discussed in committee. But that doesn't matter, because I attribute no significance to the question of whether or not they were discussed in committee. It was still wrong for the Democrats to block a massive number of Bush's nominees for no reason.

Blickers wrote:
Some of them didn't pass. This is normal for both parties.
It wasn't a case of some not passing. The Democrats blocked a huge number of nominees for no reason at all. The government was even failing to carry out some of its functions because positions were not being filled.
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 01:35 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
I attribute no significance to the question of whether or not they were discussed in committee.
So you therefore attribute no significance to whether the Senate follows the Constitution and "advises" on the presidential nominees, which the Senate did since the Founders' days until the Republicans under Mitch McConnell decided to depart from their Constitutional responsibility.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
It wasn't a case of some not passing. The Democrats blocked a huge number of nominees for no reason at all.
And the Republicans blocked a large number of Clinton's appointments for no reason at all. Those 42 district court judgeships were not all the Clinton appointments that were blocked-there were plenty of other appointments Clinton made that did not pass. However, until McConnell decided that the US Constitution is superfluous and can be ignored, all those presidential nominations were at least dealt with in committee, which fulfilled the Constitutional requirement for the Senate to "advise".

The Republicans are pretending that a normal course of events-many presidential nominees not being passed by the Senate-is unusual and therefore justified their nefarious action of ignoring the Constitution and refusing to even consider Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland until after the election, where they hoped a Republican would be in office.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 02:05 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
So you therefore attribute no significance to whether the Senate follows the Constitution and "advises" on the presidential nominees, which the Senate did since the Founders' days until the Republicans under Mitch McConnell decided to depart from their Constitutional responsibility.
I think the Republicans followed the Constitution just fine. Refusing to consider a nominee is just a way of rejecting that nominee.

Blickers wrote:
And the Republicans blocked a large number of Clinton's appointments for no reason at all.
Nothing like what the Democrats did to Bush in 2007 and 2008. Parts of the federal government were ceasing to function because of all the vacant positions.

Blickers wrote:
The Republicans are pretending that a normal course of events-many presidential nominees not being passed by the Senate-is unusual and therefore justified their nefarious action of ignoring the Constitution and refusing to even consider Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland until after the election, where they hoped a Republican would be in office.
If it was OK for the Democrats to do it to Bush, it was OK for the Republicans to do it to Obama.
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:03 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
I think the Republicans followed the Constitution just fine. Refusing to consider a nominee is just a way of rejecting that nominee.
You are wrong. The Constitution says the Senate is to "advise" the president on the nominee, which everyone since the Founding Fathers onward understood to mean that some discussion and consideration must be given to the nominee before he gets rejected, (if he gets rejected). Until Mitch McConnell came along and instructed his Republican minions to ignore the Constitution and refuse to "advise" the president on his Supreme Court nominee. Because, you know, what McConnell says is more important than what the Constitution says.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Nothing like what the Democrats did to Bush in 2007 and 2008.
On the contrary, exactly like what happened in 2007 and 2008. Dozens of Clinton's appointees turned down during his term, dozens of Bush's appointees turned down during his terms. Normal checks and balances. Only difference is, under Bush and Clinton the Senate followed the Constitution and at least discussed the appointees in committee, under McConnell they did not in reference to Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
If it was OK for the Democrats to do it to Bush, it was OK for the Republicans to do it to Obama.
The Democrats didn't do it to Bush. They rejected many of his nominations, but they always fulfilled their Constitutional duty to "advise" the president on the nomination by discussing it in committee. The Republicans under Mitch McConnell shut down the nomination process before it ever started and refused to "advise" Obama on his Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland, which had never been done before until the Republicans did it. But hey, who needs the Constitution when we can have Mitch McConnell telling us not to bother, right?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 06:17 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
On the contrary, exactly like what happened in 2007 and 2008. Dozens of Clinton's appointees turned down during his term, dozens of Bush's appointees turned down during his terms. Normal checks and balances.
What happened to Bush was a massive blockage of most of his nominations. The federal government was starting to not function because there was no one in key positions.

Blickers wrote:
The Democrats didn't do it to Bush. They rejected many of his nominations, but they always fulfilled their Constitutional duty to "advise" the president on the nomination by discussing it in committee.
Blocking Bush's nominations counts as blocking his nominations. The Republicans will respond in kind when the Democrats block nominations for no reason.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 11:03 pm
@oralloy,
But the Republicans blocked a similar percentage of Clinton's nominations. And until Mitch McConnell decided to trash the Constitution the Founding Fathers wrote, all the presidential nominations were dealt with in committee before either being passed or rejected. ONLY under McConnell did the Senate ever go against the US Constitution and refuse to "advise" on the nomination.

As typical, Republicans ignore the fact that the government must proceed according Constitutional procedures.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 11:05 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Blocking Bush's nominations counts as blocking his nominations.
No, rejecting nominations Constitutionally counts as rejecting nominations Constitutionally. Rejecting nominations unConstitutionally is an abomination for which the Republicans are soon going to pay for.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2018 03:41 pm
@Blickers,
Right now the score is somewhat even. The Democrats would be much better off not starting another fight that will only lead to the Republicans fighting back against them again.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2018 03:42 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
But the Republicans blocked a similar percentage of Clinton's nominations.
I don't remember Bill Clinton ever having such a massive blockage of his nominees that parts of the federal government stopped functioning.

Blickers wrote:
ONLY under McConnell did the Senate ever go against the US Constitution and refuse to "advise" on the nomination.
I do not perceive any violation of the Constitution.
 

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