I will actually reply yours 'cos you've given some background and I can "tailor" answers towards you specifically.
Magginkat wrote:
Actually Bilkiner,
You didn't exactly quote yourself correctly. You avoided the key part that I was talking about. Here is the exact quote:
you didn't say which bit i was "confused" about, so i just "guessed" at what you were on about, so yes, i was wrong. but let's not dwell on that...
Magginkat wrote:
People don't die for a lie, especially not when all they have to do is say that "Christ did not rise from the dead" and their lives would have been spared. [/i]
I was saying both past and present.
Paul (the "apostle to the Gentiles") and the other 11 apostles (who followed Jesus around for 10 odd years) died for their faith, save John who was exiled (one of the 11). And I also refered (implicitly, and yes i admit, probably confusingly), that the ppl TODAY are also following in the 11 apostle's footsteps + Paul's footsteps in being martyrs for Christ. These present Christians are dying in North Korea and China. I know this from Voice of the Martyrs. I'm sure if you're keen you'll google that and find their URL. So yes my statement was twofold and i apologize.
Magginkat wrote:
If I read it exactly as you wrote it I would have to wonder about your sanity since so many Christian men are dying right now in Iraq because of lies and I'll guarantee you that saying "Christ did not rise from the dead" would not have saved any of them.
Roman officials told Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) to "stop saying to the people of that land, in Rome, or wherever he was travelling that Jesus is the Christ and that he had risen from the dead". They warned him over and over again. Yet Paul kept doing it. Why? 'cos Jesus told him to, and as Paul preached, people came to Christ, and "The Church" grew. This will make no sense to you, because you aren't a Christian.
This point follows from Paul knowing that Christ is Lord and God.
It works such that:
Apostles follow Jesus.
Apostles witness Crucifixion.
Apostles witness Ressurection.
Apostles preach the word, as per Jesus' command, both alive and after death - when Resurrected.
Apostles die FOR preaching the Word.
I'm explaining to you the preaching of the Word, which what the Roman Officials told Paul not to do. The Romans haven't seen Jesus' life,death,and resurrection thus they do not know why Paul was preaching so fervently. But it was mainly the Sadducess and Pharisees (Jewish teachers of the law) that pushed for this message of the coming of the Messiah to stop, and since the teachers of the law could pressure Roman Officials to somewhat fulfill their agenda, the Romans did so, and told Paul to stop.
Paul didn't stop. He knew that Christ came to save the World, not just the apostles, so he kept preaching the word (note all he is doing is telling it like it is and teaching them the "Book" - OT etc.)
And he was finally executed.
So there is the context. Whatever you make of that doesn't really matter. What does matter is what you think of Jesus. The glory goes to him, not Paul, the apostles, or God forbid, me.
Magginkat wrote:
As for the rest of your ramble, I stand by what I said previously. You do this though out your posts making them almost unreadable. I assume that it's because you are in such a hurry to say that you are right and anyone who opposes you is wrong that you just spew away with no regard to sentence structure or how it might sound to other people.
I'm not in a hurry, there is just 10 Billion things to say on this issue. That's because these issues are not so independent of each other. It's like trying to explain how covalent bonds in chemistry works when ppl keep talking about bloody nuclear fusion and fission. Thus the whole reason why i usually ignore half arsed answers.
Magginkat wrote:
After all the religious fanatics, who support you, will understand because they read a word here and a word there that says what they want to hear.
half true.
the Christians will agree with me when i say:
"Jesus is God and rules the World. He made the World and therefore has Authority to Judge it AND Redeem it."
any other crap i spout they (and any other random) are free to disagree with.
Magginkat wrote:
I'm glad you are happy with your new found religion. I have read enough crap from the religious fanatics who think they prove that their god exists without buying one of their books. Thanks, but no thanks. I have ordered "Bible Fraud" because I know it will be interesting to read the other side of the story.
don't lie to me my friend. honesty is best policy. you are not glad that i'm a Christian. if i were an Evolution Atheist, you'd be happy, but you are not at the moment. but all is forgiven.
You can't know that my God exists without buying the Bible.
there, i'm unfashionable compared to your religious fanatics.
Magginkat wrote:
I sat here and watched a program on that fraudulent Christian Benny Hine, or whatever his name is, a couple nights ago. I find it amazing and appalling that supposedly intelligent people fall for this crap.
I can say the same about Evolution's Natural Selection. But let's not digress.
Magginkat wrote:
That phony weasel travels the world in luxury jets and stay in luxury hotels costing up to $3,000 a night and lives in a mansion all from money he has squeezed from these poor dumb people who for some reason think that he can cure cancer & a multitude of other diseases.
They do this in spite of the fact that this quack has been exposed time and again as a total fraud. This is typical of the religious fanatics who lead their churches in this country.
I would shoot them if i could. But Jesus has other plans.
You have to understand that the "Godship" (for lack of a better word) of Jesus Christ IS NOT dependent on frauds and "weasels".
that's 'nuff said on the issue.
I am not going to, and CANNOT make an excuse for this guy.
Magginkat wrote:
I was raised in a Presbyterian Church & later in the Catholic Church where, at the very least, we were taught that God was a kind and loving God....likewise for Jesus.
They *should've taught* you that the Lord God is a holy God.
"Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God."
--1 Peter 1.
Magginkat wrote:
The final proof lies in death when everyone lies rotting in the ground. What we do know is that the body rots and lies there for however many yrs or centuries it takes for it to disintegerate.
true.
with the exception (!) of Jesus Christ.
"On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?
He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: `The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'" Then they remembered his words. When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James,
and the others with them who told this to the apostles. But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense."
-- Luke 24.
"because their words seemed to them like nonsense."
LMFAO! These ARE THE APOSTLES WHO thought: "because their words seemed to them like nonsense."
Someone said to me that Christianity is "nonsense".
lmao. They're not the first. And they sure as h3ll won't be the last.
Magginkat wrote:
That's all we know for a fact. The rest has been dreamed up in the minds of men trying to explain the facts of nature..... thunderstorms, lightning, comets, meteors, floods, etc.
The other answer is blind faith and that is of no interest to me.[/b]
Evolution is a blind faith. I'm not being controversial. I'm just saying it like it is. If you want to debate me on that, shoot for it. If you don't, just bag me. It's all good.
I'm sorry that you were brought up in <whatever> "churchs" and found that it didn't "fit" with you, or that it didn't "resonate", or "didn't feel right".
The fact is, Christianity is an intellectual faith, based on Historical facts. You can prove to me that Christ didn't exist? Didn't die? Didn't rise from the dead? Heck, even the apostle's thought that was "nonsense" and they knew him first hand. Know that you had predecessors before you with that argument, and that you most definitely will have followers of the same kind.
We ALL want miracles from God to show us he exists. But when he raises a man from the dead, we shun it and continue on our daily lives doing "what we want" saying that it is a load of $hit.
I sympathize with doing "what we want" but do YOURSELF a favour;
See it like it is; Say it like it is. I couldn't really care less if you did anything else differently.
But if you want to debate Christ's Godly existence, you are debating 2000 years of history.
History? Even God can't change History. And that is fact.
I was just seeing if I could get another amusing reaction where you each thought you knew what I meant, but I can't take it any more. Yes I was being incredibly sarcastic.
, it's what those people did to other people just like them. What are you proposing evolution has to do with such horrific mass murder !?!?!
