What the hell????

When I was married, I worked nights -- fulltime. We had a baby. We bought a house. I was responsible for ALL the housework.

My husband told me, "If you think I'm going to do dishes, you have another thought coming: We'll throw out all the dishes and eat on paper plates."

When I complained that he wasn't doing his share around the house (after all, I worked at a full-time job and paid all of our bills), he asked me: "If you didn't want to do the housework, why did you want to buy a house?"

Five years later: I was still working full-time, paying all the bills, and doing all the housework. What did I need him for if OUR marriage (partnership) meant that I had all the responsibilities and he had none?

I divorced him . . . .

Jeez, Debra, what could he have been thinking? Oh wait, it's obvious he wasn't thinking at all....

I'm surprised you stuck around for 5 years. I'm sure I couldn't have been so patient!

You know, the more I read your posts, the more I like you. I was sort of afraid of you for a while there. Now I just admire you.

Oh, and Montana, I didn't mean to be flippant in my last post, but his leading the conversation with such a statement indicates he lives in an Entirely Different World than his wife, or the rest of us. I just hope she knew what she was getting into when she married. If not, gosh, all my best wishes to her in her forthcoming divorce.

glitterbag
You won't get any heat from me. If you enjoy doing things, then obviously it's not a problem and it sounds to me like you have a great husband.

Congrats :-D

Debra
Boy, does that sound familiar. I had 2 relationships just like that, which lasted each over 5 years.

I'm also surprised you waited so long to give him the boot, since you are one of the strongest woman I know. Good for you ;-)

BK
You didn't sound flippant at all. My cousins wife already had one child with my cousin before she decided to have another 5 years later, so she knew what she was in for. I know how badly she wanted kids, but she needs help.

So sorry! I don't want anyone to be afraid of me. I'm probably a little too direct when I state an opinion, but that's my law school training at work. I generally try to be helpful. I'm not very good anymore at gently holding hands and telling people what I think they want to hear as opposed to telling them what I think they ought to hear . . . if that makes any sense.

For many years in my private practice, I witnessed how NASTY people can be. (Especially in divorce / custody cases.) My compassion was worn thin . . . and I suppose that comes through in my posts.

Debra, aw, no need to apologize! I think a lot of folks here really need to hear it straight... it seems often you're the only one willing to do it.

Who knows, maybe you've helped a lot more people by laying out the truth clear & simple, than folks like me have, coddling and pussy-footing about, trying to be kind.

For me, it's so much easier to be nasty than to be kind that I force myself to be kind as an exercise for my own good. Times past, I was so mean, it's embarrassing to remember. I was nasty because I was raised nasty & grew up thinking I had to defend myself from all humans, or they'd try to destroy me like my family did.

I often wonder what makes other people so nasty, for example as you mention in divorce cases. I just hope they weren't all abused like me! Cripes, what a horrid thought.

Ah, but does she WANT help? If she doesn't, folks can help her from now 'til doomsday, and it won't do her a bit of good.

Montana, I think my husband is the reward I got after being married to my first husband. I never understood why women put up with abusive men, but I learned that it starts very slow, maybe just a disapproving glance and it ratchets up from there. The only thing I was sure about when I left my abusive husband was that I would never get married again. I liked being single and not having to answer to or confer with anybody over what color to paint the walls, all that stuff. I did have my son who was only 2 and a half, but we managed very well. This is the really cynical part, I knew I could never make a home with anyone ever again who couldn't bring something to the table and balance out the workload. In retrospect, it sounds very calculating, but I was thinking more in terms of how much time I would have to spend to take care of an extra person and I knew from experience how disheartening it is to be the only one in the house responsible for everything. Actually all that thought went out the window when I met my husband. I realized that I needed someone with their feet on the ground, someone who valued family, and wouldn't try to treat me like hired help. Don't get me wrong, we have had our differences over the years and probably will disagree again in the future. But at least now we can get things out in the open and don't beat each other up over crap that happened years ago.

Montana, I forgot to add that he always has the TV selector clutched in his hands and likes to flash thru all the channels to make sure he isn't missing something, so he really in not a hybrid he is a typical man. We used to plan vacations around his softball games, but it's a pretty comfortable tradeoff.

Debra--

I salute you as one formidable woman to another.

Hold your dominion.

This is primarily for the women here, but not meant to ignore the men.......If you were ever pregnant, so you remember the awful things people felt compelled to tell you? I can remember my boss explaining to me how much worse childbirth was on the man because (back then the husbands weren't always in delivery) he didn't know what was going on in the labor room, and all that waiting was HARD. (at the time my entire team was Army personnel) and if I had a nickel for everyone who wanted to feel my stomach, Id be rich. One poor soul felt it was his obligation to convince my that I should go thru natural childbirth, my answer to him was if it didn't come out my ear it was natural. He would tell me how to remain pain free thru breathing exercises and I told him he should remember that advice if he ever had to pass a kidney stone. In all honesty the breathing helps a lot, but is by no stretch of the imagination pain free (unless they already knocked you out). For those women who have not yet given birth, relax, it's never as bad as all the wellwishers make it out to be. I remember thinking, boy this is pretty tough, what's going to happen when it gets bad, then the baby crowned, they gave me an epidural and I was raring to go. It never got as bad as I thought it would, I had just been made uneasy by listening to other people's stories.

Glitterbag--

Part of my mother's "Now you are a woman" lecture included that men--starting with Hemmingway and moving down through the less articulate of the species--had no business giving descriptions of or advice about childbirth.

Yes, she very much wants help.

glitterbag

I'm glad you found the right guy :-D
For me, the labor was much worse than I could have ever imagined, but I would have never scared the hell out of an expecting mother by telling her my story.
I can't help but laugh when men try to give advice on child birth, LOL!

Oh, well then, that's a relief! I really feel for her, I mean, how can she STAND IT?

Hmmm...as far as GETTING help, I'll have to think on it a bit.

Yeah, I think I mentioned something in my origional past saying that she was complaining to him about not helping her during the week. I know what it's like to care for a child and all the housework day and night and watch my ex plop himself in front of the tv all night after he gets back from work. He saw how busy and exausted I was, but he never lifted a finger to give me a hand.
If he ever watched our son for a short time while I went to the store or an appointment (which wasn't often), he would call it babysitting.
My cousin came by one day last year and said his wffe would be gone for the weekend and tells me he has to babysit "his" daughter all weekend, while he rolled his eyes.
I tell you, it took every fiber of my being not to knock his lights out, but I kept cool and firmly told him that parents don't babysit their kids!

Montana,
I don't know if my experience was typical of the time, but I was one of three women in the labor rooms awaiting delivery. I saw one woman come in (hugh bell on top of skinny legs - looked like a bird) and she was trembling with fear. We were all in separate rooms so I couldn't see them unless they passed by my door but I could hear them. I could hear the skinny legged woman moaning and screaming that she couldn't take it and I asked my nurse if it was her first baby. The nurse said no, it's her second. That's when I got scared because I was cramping up pretty good and wondered what it would feel like if I had to start screaming. Then it got very quite and I was relieved until I asked my nurse if that poor woman had a boy or girl and she said "Oh, she hasn't delivered yet, we knocked her out". So I kept waiting for the unbearable part, and God know you are damn near exhausted by the time you are ready to deliver, when the nurse said "the baby's crowning" and tried to sit me up for the epidural, I was weak but said I couldn't do it I was afraid I would sit on the child's head........Then a wonderful thing happened, my whole lower half went numb and that's when I actually got to finding the whole process exceptionally interesting. I don't know about anybody else, but I remember thinking that pain was like a chariliehorse in your uterus and intestines. Wouldn't want to feel that everyday, but definitely doable.

That screaming woman sounds just like me. They gave me absolutely nothing for the pain as much as I begged. Boy, how I wish they had knocked me out. I was in labor for 32 hours and I laugh when some women say that you forget all about the pain. I have never emagined that kind of pain and I will never ever forget, LOL!
I know some women have it easier than others, but I was one of the others.

Everybody handles pain differently, when something really hurts I don't even want to talk above a whisper, seems to make it worse. I do remember after having my son listening to other expectant mothers claiming that by doing this exercise or another they would be able to ensure a complete painfree delivery and I used to think "heh heh heh, I don't care what she says, I know what she is in for".

And as far as men talking about babysitting their own children, that happens to steam my cabbage as well.

The Lovely Bride and I share the house work.
That I do my share is evident by the fact that I am still alive and able to
type this.