0
   

Back to Leave No Child Behind

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:51 am
Atkins:-

What is style?What is lack of style?What is trying to go through an entire thread?What is bogged down?

Whatever pedantic point you are trying to make the fact is that only a small percentage of Germans worked in the camps and it is a mistake to judge a nation because of what they did.Not only is it a mistake it is also counter-productive.We have moved on and the German nation belongs to NATO and to the EEC and has teams in the Champions League and the Olympic Games to mention but a few.

Why I would wish to criticise those unfortunates who had the duty of knocking me into some sort of shape I cannot imagine.I am grateful to them more than I can say.

If you are bogged down,which I doubt,I am sorry.
The correct procedure if you are is to get four short planks about 3 inches thick and lay them on the surface of the bog in a rectangular formation about your upper body and wriggle free using them as supports.A public spirited person would leave the planks in position in case someone else gets bogged down in the same spot.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:17 am
spendius wrote:
Atkins:-

What is style?What is lack of style?What is trying to go through an entire thread?What is bogged down?

Whatever pedantic point you are trying to make the fact is that only a small percentage of Germans worked in the camps and it is a mistake to judge a nation because of what they did.Not only is it a mistake it is also counter-productive.We have moved on and the German nation belongs to NATO and to the EEC and has teams in the Champions League and the Olympic Games to mention but a few.

Why I would wish to criticise those unfortunates who had the duty of knocking me into some sort of shape I cannot imagine.I am grateful to them more than I can say.

If you are bogged down,which I doubt,I am sorry.
The correct procedure if you are is to get four short planks about 3 inches thick and lay them on the surface of the bog in a rectangular formation about your upper body and wriggle free using them as supports.A public spirited person would leave the planks in position in case someone else gets bogged down in the same spot.


I'm bogged down because your grammar is horrible. I take it you feel your education is superior to contemporary education.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:24 am
Spendius may be a bit challenging to follow, Atkins, but at least he generally has something interesting, even provocative, to say rather than going from thread to thread pronouncing judgment and criticism on other members.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:40 am
Foxy:-

Hey-I don't mind.If my grammar is "horrible"I am glad to be informed and hopefully guidance will be provided.

My education is my education and contempory education is no doubt something different.Which is superior I have no idea.Grammar is in the service of clear meaning and not an end in itself.

If you would be so kind as to enlighten me about any possible meaning in the Atkins post I replied to
I would be fairly grateful but don't put yourself out on my account.It looked like drivel to me slopped all down a bib.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 07:53 am
LOL Spendius. You're asking me to be guilty of what I criticize Atkins for. Smile

Your writing style is unique and funny and I wouldn't change a thing since you're finally using paragraphs. I have no question that your education is at least as substantial as his.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 10:06 am
Getting back to the topic of this forum. In today's San Jose Mercury News, a front page article shows how "preschool expulsions" are worse in California than in the US, and what is particularly disturbing is the fact that "African American children are twice as likely to be expelled as Latino and white children." What was the purpose of NCLB again?
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 11:51 am
spendius wrote:
Foxy:-

Hey-I don't mind.If my grammar is "horrible"I am glad to be informed and hopefully guidance will be provided.

My education is my education and contempory education is no doubt something different.Which is superior I have no idea.Grammar is in the service of clear meaning and not an end in itself.

If you would be so kind as to enlighten me about any possible meaning in the Atkins post I replied to
I would be fairly grateful but don't put yourself out on my account.It looked like drivel to me slopped all down a bib.


Well, at least you know what grammar is for, and, maybe, just maybe, a glimmer of realization will dawn that you are not communicating.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 11:54 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Getting back to the topic of this forum. In today's San Jose Mercury News, a front page article shows how "preschool expulsions" are worse in California than in the US, and what is particularly disturbing is the fact that "African American children are twice as likely to be expelled as Latino and white children." What was the purpose of NCLB again?


I'm not certain what is going on in San Jose. There was a piece about this on the morning news. Several recent studies have demonstrated that nursery, or preschool, does more to benefit children than most other programs.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 11:56 am
Why am I rereading this topic?

Because most of the points that are being made have already been made.

Furthermore, I want to document the facts presented, the tone and the behaviour of the participants of this discussion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:24 pm
Atkins, The article I mentioned earlier had to do with California vs the US, and not San Jose, since I'm not sure how it impacts San Jose vs California. But as you say, I've also learned that preschool does more benefit for children than most other programs. So the question, "what is the goal of NCLB if the majority expelled from preschool are African Americans?"
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 06:01 am
Atkins:-

I presume you mean not communicating with you.
That is not the same as not communicating.I might well be pleased about the former although I find it difficult to see how you reply to someone who is not communicating with you.Perhaps you would be kind enough to suggest methods of communicating with you and I'll give them the once over and if any look promising I will give it a try.Would a bit of flattery do the job.I have been known to stoop to such underhand strategies but I confess never with anyone called Atkins.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 11:17 am
All ya gotta do with some folks, in order to communicate successfully with 'em (from their point of view), is take their side, accept their points unquestioningly, stipulate there is no basis for dispute, and cease arguing against 'em. In fact, thats the only way, some times, with some folks.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 02:03 pm
timberlandko wrote:
All ya gotta do with some folks, in order to communicate successfully with 'em (from their point of view), is take their side, accept their points unquestioningly, stipulate there is no basis for dispute, and cease arguing against 'em. In fact, thats the only way, some times, with some folks.


Try writing plain English sentences. Put the subject first; then the predicate which is a big word for verb; then the object.

Use words as they are meant to be used. Do not try to "tart them up" with endings. Say medicine and not medication; price and not price point; etc.

Stop coining words. If you don't know the real word, use a dictionary.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 02:39 pm
You write the way you care to, I'll write as I please. You weigh my style and substance as you will; I'll afford you the same. I find in your style a running tenor marked by pedantic, pedagogic incivillity, and little else of substance. That, of course, is a wholly subjective assessment. Should you wish to pursue style and substance as matters of discussion unto themselves, I submit it were better were we to prosecute that debate in a thread of its own. And that too is mere opinion. You're free to do as you see fit - as are we all - so long as interplay here on this website remains within the bounds of the user agreement.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 07:32 am
timberlandko wrote:
You write the way you care to, I'll write as I please. You weigh my style and substance as you will; I'll afford you the same. I find in your style a running tenor marked by pedantic, pedagogic incivillity, and little else of substance. That, of course, is a wholly subjective assessment. Should you wish to pursue style and substance as matters of discussion unto themselves, I submit it were better were we to prosecute that debate in a thread of its own. And that too is mere opinion. You're free to do as you see fit - as are we all - so long as interplay here on this website remains within the bounds of the user agreement.


So, you wish to be misunderstood. You wish to bore people with the construction of your sentences and your arguments. That's fine. Do not be surprised if people simply scroll past your writing.

Now, I wish to refute some of the things you have posted here. To do this, I will return to reading this thread, again. I believe I left off on page eight.

Hmm. Is incivility a word?

You see, you insulted me here and yet you scream at others when you think they may have insulted in you. All we readers try to do is wade through your imaginary vocabulary.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 07:42 am
Mills75 wrote:
As an educator, I find myself squarely behind the south end of this northbound jackass called "No Child Left Behind." What people don't realize is that educators didn't design NCLB, politicians did. NCLB rewards schools that succeed by penalizing schools that don't. How is success or failure determined? By standardized tests. What's more, educators don't want to teach to a test, but we (both teachers and administrators) are being forced to, forced to by the politicians and, to a large degree, parents. The politicians have decided that these standardized tests are the only measure of performance worth looking at.

As for fishin's comments on the integrity of teachers and administrators: it shows a definite lack of understanding of how school districts operate. Unless you're self-employed you have a boss. If your boss orders you to do your job differently, then you do your job differently regardless of whether or not it's a better way to do the job (unless your boss's orders are illegal, pose a threat of physical harm, or violate your contract). If you don't, you're fired. Teachers have bosses--administrators. Administrators have bosses--the school board. The school board in turn answers to parents (primarily, because parents are the most likely to vote in school board elections), and so on. School districts aren't choosing to teach to a test, NCLB is forcing them to. If my boss tells me to do my job differently, I do it differently because I want to remain employed just like anyone else. (And let me tell you that most of the directives given to teachers from on high result in less and less time for students.)


I have been thinking ofthis post for several days. It points to something about the critics of education. They scream the word accountability. Actually, this is nothing new. Accountability first surfaced in the 1980s. The people who brought up the notion of accountability then were not the same people who use it today.

There is a contradiction between standards issued by people outside of the profession and the need for excellence within the profession.

To become a teacher, one must have at least one college degree. Most teachers today have two or three.

To get a teaching job, a candidate has to submit official copies of his transcripts, a resume and three letters of recommendation. Letters of recommendation are passe in business.

Sometimes, multiple interviews are done. This is a standard in business, particularly at the upper levels. This is fair because most teachers are educated beyond most business applicants, despite lower earnings.

Sometimes, a candidate is made to teach a class at the school to which he has applied. Sometimes, administrators from the new school come to observe him at the old. Sometimes, a candidate is made to submit lesson plans.

Then, these same people, who have educated themselves to perform a job they view as a calling, must face the criticism of functional illiterates who happen to get themselves elected to petty political posts.

That's life in the big city.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 07:49 am
Atkins:-

Who do you have in mind as the perfect model of English expression.Perhaps we could study it and bring ourselves up to your standard and then we could bore the hinderparts off everybody as good as you do.

You will find "hinderparts" in Finnegan's Wake.That is a masterpiece of English expression according to some experts whose opinions I have been following for some time.If you could look it over and give your view I would be grateful as no doubt would be other threaders.There's no rush though.
If that is too easy try some collected tabloid headlines.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 07:52 am
spendius wrote:
The kids are the priority I should have thought.

It's the same here.The educational system is teacher centred.It is dominated by the lower middle-class.The fee-paying schools cater for a very small proportion of children.Mr Blair uses those as also do anybody who can afford it.

c.i.--you said,"general statements really is not fair".
I don't know about that.Specific statements are meaningless in a debate of this nature.They represent mere incidents.When 40 million (was it?) children's education is under discussion one could find specifics to prove anything.There are more than a few unsubstantiated assertions in your post
you know which,other than pointing you to them,I will not comment on.
There seems very little here which is concerned with the education of children,let alone the idea of leaving no child behind whatever that means.
We seem to be talking past each other.


I remember some of the writers from the right hand side of the political spectrum criticizing those on the left for making assumptions.

What an assumption spendius made!

The educational system is not teacher centered. Do you know anything about some of the educational theories currently being used?

Teachers are patrolled by the school boards and positively forbidden to use teacher centered lesson plans.

What advantages do teachers have that makes education centered on them? Many teachers can not use telephones during the school day to return parent calls. They have 20 minutes or less to eat lunch.

Education is not dominated by the lower middle class. At the last public school at which I worked, we had teachers from Ivies and from some of the best of the liberal arts colleges.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 07:58 am
spendius wrote:
It's actually an impossible problem.Millions of children cannot be dealt with in any new way given the exigencies.I feel sure that most of the professionals involved are doing what they think best with what they have.I do not envy them.
However,one can seek to restore some faith in individual teachers and if that is done it is going to be only their students who will benefit assuming that the faith is a sound one.To view the problem in larger spheres,even globally,can,not will, cause a distraction.My focus,if I was a teacher,would be on my students and particularly the responsive ones.
.


At the risk of being pedantic, as Timberlandko has charged, that last sentence should read, "My focus, if I were a teacher . . ."

I am sorry that proper grammar is viewed as pedantry.

Let us return to the sentence in question.

The writer said he (I assume spendius is male) would focus on students, but he emphasized, "the responsive ones."

A teacher should work to bring a response from each of his students. Hopefully, the response will be positive.
0 Replies
 
Atkins
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 08:04 am
McGentrix wrote:
I'd like to see a universal curriculum with associated text books approved by an intelligent panel of educators from every level.

The state level curriculum fails to address many of the issues present in todays schools. The states are failing to overcome this issue and we should privatize the whole institution. Get education in the hands of the educators and out of the hands of the legislators...


This is your best post.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 11/16/2024 at 11:45:59